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Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

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    #19112
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770824#Comment_120770824

    When the November squad was announced, Crowley had started exactly zero games at 10 for the new Munster coach

    The full context here is that there were 7 games before November; he missed 3 due to the EI tour, and Munster had an injury crisis after that. (I've been on here for nearly 2 years now saying I think he'd be Munster's starting 10 in the medium term).

    But I really don't think it's definitive he was Munster's 3rd choice under Rowntree; he was needed at 12. Even started 1 game at 15.

    The point I'm making is not that because they are 1st choice, they should be in. It's that, if they are 1st choice with the provinces, and they are performing really well in Europe say, but a player who has scant minutes in Europe gets in ahead of them, it may begin to alienate a certain cohort.



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    #19113
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770815#Comment_120770815

    why would osbourne have to be second choice when ngatai was ahead of both of them?

    Because there are two centre positions.

    If Henshaw and Ringrose are first choice, then Ngatai and Osborne are second choice.



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    #19114
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770853#Comment_120770853

    it may begin to alienate a certain cohort.

    Then so be it.

    You cannot ask the coaches to pick the Ireland squad on any basis other than picking the players they think are the best choices.

    If some of the alienated cohort do end up leaving, that's unfortunate but a) it has yet to happen and b) I'm not sure what the solution is.



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    #19115
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770873#Comment_120770873

    It’s not that simple. If Ringrose was fit, Henshaw could easily move to 13, for example.



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    #19116
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770880#Comment_120770880

    I’ve no idea what the solution is either, if it does, but I think it is a potential risk. (You could argue it has happened with Kleyn, of sorts).

    I remember this exact argument kicking off with regards Penny vs Hodnett earlier in the season. Some claimed they were at the same level of the depth chart. I think it’s pretty clear the way the season played out since that they weren’t.

    My point is that I think the big game experience that Hodnett has acquired, that Penny simply doesn’t have, has to be valuable.



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    #19117
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I'm so excited about the Crusaders game. The champions of the two best leagues in each hemisphere playing each other, what a story

    I can see a really special relationship form between the two clubs. Maybe one of mutual respect and rivalry



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    #19118
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Shame Razor is gone, as there 100% would have been a dance-off between him and Wig after the game...



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    #19119
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Just thinking forward to the beginning of the league, and what our 23 will possibly be for the first 3 rounds of the URC R1 Oct 20th-22md, R2 Oct 27th-29th, R3 Nov 3rd-5th, assuming none of the Internationals will be available, and trying to give all senior players a start and all year 3 academy players at least one appearance from the bench.

    Round 1:

    Loughman, Barron, Archer,

    Wycherley, Ahern,

    O’Donoghue, Kendellen, Hodnett,

    Coughlan, Carbery,

    Daly, Nankivell, Frisch, Conway,

    Haley.

    Replacements: Scannell, Wycherley, Salanoa, Hurley, O’Sullivan, Cronin, Butler, Zebo.


    Round 2:

    Wycherley, Scannell, Ryan,

    Hurley, Ahern,

    O’Donoghue, Kendellen, O’Sullivan,

    Cronin, Carbery,

    Zebo, Scannell, O’Brien, Coombes,

    Campbell.

    Replacements: Buckley, Donnelly, Knox, Edogbo, Okeke, Coughlan, Butler, Haley.


    Round 3:

    Loughman, Buckley, Salanoa,

    Wycherley, Ahern,

    Daly, O’Sullivan, Hodnett,

    Coughlan, Carbery,

    Daly, Nankivell, Frisch, Conway,

    Haley.

    Replacements: Moore, Wycherley, Archer, Hurley, Kendellen, Cronin, Butler, Campbell.

    Post edited by Jump_In_Jack on


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    #19120
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,200 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770596#Comment_120770596

    Donnacha Ryan was also not offered an Irfu central contract ….despite been a regular for country and province and also age …..Jamie heaslio despite been older got one …..both great players but I know which one I’d of preferred keep



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    #19121
    CONSI
    Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭CONSI


    Carbery playing every game, lot of reliance on him next year



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    #19122
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771452#Comment_120771452

    Ryan not being offered a central contract was a completely separate issue from Heaslip. It absolutely wasn't an either/or issue no matter how much people wanted to portray it as such.



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    #19123
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770899#Comment_120770899

    Going to reply on the Ireland thread.



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    #19124
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,200 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771516#Comment_120771516

    Age was mentioned re Ryan …..heaslip was older and in a position.we were well covered and still got central contract ……



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    #19125
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771555#Comment_120771555

    Again. Not a case of one or the other. They didn't even play the same position. It was just convenient to paint it that way.



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    #19126
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770638#Comment_120770638

    Ryan is the only one of those 3 that stayed abroad. Sexton only went because he was low balled. Zebo the only one who was frustrated at not getting picked for Ireland. Yet he still came back, even though that wasn’t going to change.

    It would be massively unlikely for Coombes of Hodnett to consider going abroad. As for Haley, did he come here expecting involvement with Ireland? Is it a major factor in him staying?



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    #19127
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771619#Comment_120771619

    Zebo always wanted to play abroad. I don't even think he should be in this discussion.

    Why would Coombes or Hodnett not look at going abroad? If they are playing well for Munster, getting no gametime with Ireland and they feel like they deserve it, and could get more money abroad. Why wouldn't they go?

    Irish caps were definitely an attraction for Haley id imagine and he was in some camps at the start.



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    #19128
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,316 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771619#Comment_120771619

    Maybe without realising it while you're trying to explain they're different cases you're also kinda making the point for me.


    I wonder if Sexton was not going to be picked for Ireland while playing abroad would he have gone, low balling or no low balling, I don't think he would.



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    #19129
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771683#Comment_120771683

    Haley was capped under Schmidt I think? He is unlikely to get offered significantly more money in the UK or in France. So why would it make such a difference not getting picked for Ireland?

    Coombes has been capped and is in the periphery of the team. Why would he leave? He has players ahead of him who are better than he is. Though they will get injured, as is always the way. Hodnett can’t be far off a call up either. I would imagine after the EI tour he has been in contact with the Irish setup. Maybe they could get more money abroad, though it might not be enough to make it worthwhile leaving Ireland.



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    #19130
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771727#Comment_120771727

    With the benefit of hindsight you might say that. However there is no way the IRFU had told Sexton when he was negotiating with them. That he would still be picked if abroad. He took that risk in going over there, that he wouldn’t be.



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    #19131
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771727#Comment_120771727

    I wonder if Sexton was not going to be picked for Ireland while playing abroad would he have gone, low balling or no low balling, I don't think he would.

    Almost definitely. There is no way he could have stayed under the conditions he was offered.

    Look, Munster might lose a couple players, but that's just not going to be a concern of the Irish coaches when selecting squads. I suspect more Munster players will start getting rewarded next year, but they have themselves to blame as much as anyone for not being very good and sticking with a questionable coach for so long. Suspect under Rowntree and with some improved performances in the second half of the year continuing on that this will change.



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    #19132
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771619#Comment_120771619

    Zebo the only one who was frustrated at not getting picked for Ireland.

    This is often said on here, but Zebo played something like all but 6 minutes of the 6 Nations and the 2 AI’s vs NZ in the season prior to his departure being announced.

    He absolutely was getting picked for Ireland.

    Sexton only went because he was low balled.

    Exactly. And now the worry is that a cohort that feel they may be underpaid, and little opportunity to get the add-ons that come with Irish representation, may consider leaving for more money too.



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    #19133
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772090#Comment_120772090

    Exactly. And now the worry is that a cohort that feel they may be underpaid, and little opportunity to get the add-ons that come with Irish representation, may consider leaving for more money too.

    Not sure its a reasonable comparison. Sexton was incompetently and offensively low-balled. It had nothing to do with Irish selection and everything to do with gross incompetence at the blazer level.

    I'm sure one or two players might leave due to lack of selection, but the fear doesn't really seem to be based on anything. Perhaps if they are keen to play in another country, but I don't think French teams are going to be offering them anything outrageous. They have their own salary caps and superstars to worry about.



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    #19134
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772090#Comment_120772090

    Zebo was very open about the fact he felt neglected by Ireland. Yes he did get picked in the last 6N before leaving. Mostly due to injuries. He was never at any stage first choice or near it under Schmidt.

    Which Munster player is being low balled?



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    #19135
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772236#Comment_120772236

    Was it mostly due to injuries? Who was injured? Cos I’m fairly certain Zebo was first choice for that year.

    Low-balled may be over-stating it. But earning less than they could command abroad? Yes absolutely.



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    #19136
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,316 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772039#Comment_120772039

    Again, I'm not saying it should be a concern for the Irish coaches, and this is not aimed at you but why is this even being raised by posters, very few if anyone has said players should get capped for the sake of keeping them in Ireland. However, it should be a concern for the IRFU, the IRFU that was also very happy to extend the contract of the guy that you're laying blame on for the Munster players not getting near the Irish Squad.



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    #19137
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772320#Comment_120772320

    the IRFU that was also very happy to extend the contract of the guy that you're laying blame on for the Munster players not getting near the Irish Squad.

    as were Munster, and I'll never understand the decision.

    It is a potential problem, yes. I think the solutions are more at provincial level and the quality of coaching the players are receiving which might change rather fundamentally next season as Rowntree settles in and there is some churn elsewhere.

    I also don't think someone like Hodnett is going to get paid much (if any) more elsewhere tbh, so I think its an overstated potential issue at the same time.



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    #19138
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,316 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772390#Comment_120772390

    When I suggested that Munster should be allowed to keep Kleyn and RGS I had posters telling me Nucifora wouldn't allow it. Why does he just rubber stamp the provincial coaches, where they have a bigger (negative) impact than two NIQs playing in similar positions on the same team.



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    #19139
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120759498#Comment_120759498

    Your only allowed to change union once as per the rules. Hes already changed union



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    #19140
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772534#Comment_120772534

    I never claimed he just rubber stamped them, but I don't go around blaming the IRFU for Kane Douglas being rubbish at Leinster. Munster have not been well coached over the last number of years, and this is going to impact their player selection. That should change hopefully going forward, as the standard certainly seems to have improved.



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    #19141
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772553#Comment_120772553

    He’s made an application to change union, which has been cleared. So it’s the same as giving him both options once more, before he was capped for Ireland.



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