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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

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    #8012
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769805#Comment_120769805

    You can claim asylum in the USA or Australia. You don't if you want to go live and work there. In answer to your question people who want to come live and work here apply for visas. Why would they apply for asylum?



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    #8013
    ParkRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,022 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769801#Comment_120769801

    A poster doesn’t have to answer the question. If they want to answer it is none of my business that’s fine, it’s just a discussion.


    In relation to homelessness I said the numbers are relatively stable. This is compared to the number of refugees/international protection applicants which have massively spiked in the last 2 years, requiring approx €3bn additional expenditure this year.


    Having people arriving and being left in tents or adding to homelessness is not a good solution for anyone but we could see more and more of this if the numbers arriving continue at current levels.



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    #8014
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769961#Comment_120769961

    They have been increasing year on year. That isn't stable.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #8015
    TokTik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭TokTik


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769452#Comment_120769452

    I would imagine because they don’t qualify for visas and see Ireland as a soft touch. No qualification, no problem. I’ve no third level qualifications so could only do 1 year in Oz as I couldn’t find sponsorship. If I thought I’d be given free rein without any consequences, I’d fly back out tomorrow.



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    #8016
    Juran
    Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Juran


    Ok. I've come to realize two posters here don't want to accept that the current uncontrolled migration via illegal AS system does not benefit the country, economy or safety of citizens ( women in particular). So no point in conversing with them.

    I own my house, fully paid for - would I take in an AS or refugee ? No. My choice. Thats what its all about, CHOICE. Hope it reflects in the next election. Though I fear there is no alternative right now in politics.



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    #8017
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,022 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770099#Comment_120770099

    Really ? Can you not do 3 months rural work to extend for another year? Holiday Visa.



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    #8018
    TokTik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭TokTik


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770132#Comment_120770132

    No, I was over there years ago. That only came into effect in about 2009/10 I think.



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    #8019
    Stephen_Maturin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769921#Comment_120769921

    Nope, not with me



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    #8020
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,022 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770175#Comment_120770175

    Beg your pardon. It was with Kaiser , but 2 posts up and 5 minutes before your post .



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    #8021
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,022 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770144#Comment_120770144


    It's a good system , for Australia .

    Post edited by Goldengirl on


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    #8022
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users Posts: 86,105 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    I hope the Ukrainian theatre actor attacked in Dublin will be OK and the culprits caught asap

    The modular homes in Mahon Cork is ready for Ukrainian refugees, if only quick homes could go up for everyone here too in need

    https://forumofgames.com/




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    #8023
    superbatman
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭superbatman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120766496#Comment_120766496

    And there it is. No everyone else can see that you like to paint people with your very tired brush.

    You don't listen to anyone's concerns, you don't listen to facts people give you,you just find ways to revert to your point which is what? That we should have no issues of 100's of men going into tiny villages around Ireland?

    The reality is most of Ireland are tired of it so if you wanna imply people who have this view are bigots etc then go ahead but it really is a boring way to try and argue your point, it's become a trope at this point.



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    #8024
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120764246#Comment_120764246

    No expenses spared. Pack them in there.



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    #8025
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,112 ✭✭✭✭silverharp



    ow well, at least its for a good casue

    https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1673497900461207554


    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #8026
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,973 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771097#Comment_120771097

    Wonder how many more will go like that? Already had the ones in Sligo and now this



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    #8027
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771000#Comment_120771000

    What exactly is your issue with men?

    You used to complain about certain cultures, now you're complaining about men.

    Can you spell out why you are afraid of men and how you manage to live life with such a dibiliatating illness.

    Although, tbf, most women in this country who are raped and murdered, it is by men that are known to them, like husbands, partners, family members, so maybe you are right......



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    #8028
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771113#Comment_120771113

    Student accommodation, nursing homes, 55000 in hotel rooms, where else can we put Ukrainians who are still arriving at the rate of 500/600 a week according to O Gorman



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    #8029
    jack of all
    Registered Users Posts: 2,376 ✭✭✭jack of all


    I've been following this thread for a long time and I am angered by some of the nonsense spouted by the same few posters, who see no problem with our unfettered approach to immigration. We have finite resources, especially in terms of housing, schools, hospitals and GP care. It appears these posters would have us believe that a huge increase in population over a short period is not a problem, nothing to see here. Where are the new intake of third level students going to stay in September (my eldest child will be amongst them), where will the future doctors, nurses, teachers, plumbers, mechanics etc come from if they cannot get student accommodation now? The country's young people have been sold down the river with this bs. We should be putting our own first. As a taxpayer of 30 years I feel no obligation towards anyone arriving on these shores from far flung corners of the world. It's not racism, it's simply looking out for your own and there's nothing wrong with that.



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    #8030
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771000#Comment_120771000

    But I do think that a lot of the people on this thread, who seem to hold themselves out as just being common sense realists, appear to have a very distinct lack of grasp on reality.

    The reality is that, on top of all the other refugees in this world, 8 million people fleeing Ukraine have been recorded across Europe. Take away the 2.5-3 million who are believed to be in Russia you have around 5 million fleeing into Central and Western Europe. Where do you propose these 5 million could have been safely filed away in a manner that presented no downsides for anyone? Let Poland deal with it alone and house 5 million people? Militarise the Ukrainian border so no refugees could escape and let Ukraine risk handling an unbelievable humanitarian crisis on its Western borders while also juggling the small matter of fighting off a hostile military invasion by a mechanised Russian war machine in the east and in the skies?

    You have people on here singing the praises of the Danes for their apparently common sense strategy, all in total ignorance of the fact that Denmark has been a net contributor to hosting refugees for some time. And yet, in Ireland's first real experience as a wealthy country of feeling the strain of handling a huge displacement of European people — well — suddenly people believe start making an equivalence.

    There seem to be a lot of "realists" on here who believe that Ireland can forever accept only the benefits of participating in the international community (foreign investment, Western capitalism, global supply chains, the ability of our citizens to travel and relocate, the resources / food / energy mined or sourced from other countries) but perpetually avoid any of the other components of the term "international community" that have negative or unfair outcomes for Ireland — or which can't be carefully executed and planned out to perfection by ministers.



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    #8031
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771614#Comment_120771614

    Maybe a crazy idea would be European countries taking in equal numbers relative to their size and offer the exact same benefits. Ireland is the most generous offering full meals, accommodation and full social welfare. Heres the latest breakdown of numbers of Ukrainian refugees around Europe I can find :

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1312584/ukrainian-refugees-by-country/

    Ireland 82k population 5 million

    France 118k population 68 million

    Belgium 71k population 12 million

    Holland 89k population 18 million

    Sweden 53 k Population 10 million

    Denmark 41k population 6 million

    Finland 47k population 5.5 million

    Norway 45k population 5.5 million

    etc etc but we're told we must do more , live up to our obligations or we'll be fined. How do these other countries get away with not living up to their obligations?



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    #8032
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,390 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Ireland has a housing crisis, which can be simply summed up in one sentence. Since recovering from the recession, demand for housing has vastly exceeded supply. There are several reasons for this, Irish diaspora returning now that times are better, the construction industry being decimated during 2009-2014, the hangover of fear and risk aversion from the crash etc. One of the reasons demand is exceeding supply is because of legal immigration, a lot of people choose to come to Ireland because it's a wonderful country with great opportunities, and in the last few years has also become a global beacon of liberty. We have an enormous number of selling points for the country.

    Meanwhile, we have taken in over 100,000 refugees, both temporary protection (Ukraine) and international protection (asylum seekers) in the last 1-2 years. Many of the former are seeking temporary accommodation, many of the latter would like to stay. The simple fact is we have a deficit of thousands of houses that is being unfilled without the additional arrivals, and this is only going to get worse in coming years as the deficit widens. Therefore, for the next few years, the housing crisis is effectively unsolvable and we are sprinting to stand still. Sinn Fein or whatever pinkos are running against FF/FG are not going to be able to address this either. The main issue for housing development is a shortage of labour and unless they find a way to cultivate labour nothing will change. We already have one set of pinkos in Government (the Green ones) and their contributions don't seem to be making much of a contribution to solving the issue from what I can see. It is a simple fact that adding 100,000 people to the country's population is going to exacerbate the housing crisis, when we already have a shortage of houses.

    You'll notice that I haven't mentioned race, country of origin, age, or any features of the individuals themselves. Because this has nothing to do with race, that's a different discussion altogether. But I do notice now there are weekly outbreaks of disquiet around the country, Magowna, Turnapin, and now the student accommodation in Sligo and now Cork. There are real people (read: voters) affected in all these situations, and if these outbreaks of anger continue they won't be long adding up at the next election. An election fought on the politics of immigration is something we've managed to avoid thankfully in this country until now but I fear our run has come to an end. When students are being told there is no accommodation for them for next semester because of this entirely foreseeable shitshow it starts affecting people rightly, rather than disquiet about national numbers.

    The vast majority of people in this country do not want a "zero refugee policy". Nor do they want any radical, unhumanitarian approaches as you see trumpeted in other countries. But go around the country and poll 2020 FG/FF voters and ask how many of them wanted the current situation we see. I'd imagine the numbers would be quite low.



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    #8033
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,328 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771738#Comment_120771738

    There are real people (read: voters) affected in all these situations, and if these outbreaks of anger continue they won't be long adding up at the next election. An election fought on the politics of immigration is something we've managed to avoid thankfully in this country until now but I fear our run has come to an end.


    But again we come back to the question of who is a clear alternative on immigration. If all siginificant parties are on more or less the same page I don't see how we get "an election fought on the politics of immigration."



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    #8034
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771738#Comment_120771738

    I agree, but how do you go about solving the housing crisis? And why are the government not taking action on it?

    We have known for years that there is a housing crisis, even before the war in Ukraine put massive pressure on Europe. What is the reasoning behind the governments lack of action.

    I do believe that the government are causing problems for immigrants due to their complete failure to do anything substantial. And I do believe that if housing was not an issue we would see far far less criticism of refugees.

    I also believe that the way to deal with these issues are not protesting at DP centres or against the people moving into them. The country needs to protest to government, make them do something.



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    #8035
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771735#Comment_120771735

    And that is the entire point of the commitments which Ireland has made in terms of refugees — an understanding that a large number of countries cooperating and doing their bit helps to widen the impact radius and soften the blow. So that's something to be kept in mind when we see the rapturous praise on here for countries that lean towards pulling up their drawbridge, contenting themselves that others will pick up the pieces to avoid a humanitarian disaster zone in Ukraine for an administration already focused on defending the borders of Europe against Russian aggression.

    Now I would point out that the figures you have given there are for Ukrainian refugees only. Taking into account all refugees from any country as a percentage of population, the EU average is roughly 1.5% with Germany and Poland sitting at 2.7% and 3.5% respectively. A lot of our European allies also have higher levels of immigration generally and deal with some of the challenges presented by the Schengen border arrangement for controlling population movement.

    So it's not like we are the only country making an effort or facing difficulties. But if people could turn their heads away from those who want to tell us that refugees are little more than unwashed hordes of ill-natured, ill-intentioned fakers then that would be a big step towards creating a situation where international cooperation eases the bottlenecks created by wars and other crises and give all countries' systems more breathing space to develop more robust processes.



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    #8036
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,390 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771776#Comment_120771776

    I agree and have posted on this thread before about the homogeneity of Irish parties when it comes to this issue. What I can see is a number of independents and minor parties (Aontu perhaps) doing better than expected in the election on the back of it and it potentially being weaponised after that. Ala Peter Casey in 2018. But the issue of immigration will be clear on the doorsteps, and in the debate around the election.



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    #8037
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,390 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771853#Comment_120771853

    If housing wasn't an issue, we wouldn't see student accomodation being repurposed as DP centres. We'd be able to build purpose built accomodation for asylum seekers if we had the capability for doing so (perhaps not for the current volume but something like what Roderic wanted to aspire to). But the repurposing of old buildings for this purpose is also taking labour away from housing construction, which is (minorly) making the housing crisis worse.

    There are no simple solutions to the housing crisis, and there's no way of solving it. It's a multi faceted mire of issues with complex and targeted solutions. You can just mitigate problems like this, stabilise them over the long term and improve the situation to the point it becomes a more minor issue for people. There are no simple solutions like the pinkos would have you believe.

    But mitigating the housing issue is one thing, not aggravating it is another. There's no point in rolling out mitigation measures when at the same time you are de facto implementing "policies" (I use this word loosely in the context of immigration as much of the decision making seems to revolve around emotion rather than logic) that aggravate the issue.



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    #8038
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768437#Comment_120768437

    Where have I claimed that all refugees are on social welfare !!

    I never said I worked for a government department !! You are fabricating .

    ''educated opinion based on previous refugees '' More like you need to educate your opinion . The conditions for refugees in the Balkans was a lot worse no welfare or proper accommodation . They could return to homes that were not destroyed.

    The allocation of funds to various departments is decided by government does not matter if they are separate .

    Maybe if you say it often enough its true .



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    #8039
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771960#Comment_120771960

    But surely the housing crisis is the biggest issue facing Ireland and the government today.

    So why isn't there some urgency in fixing the problem?

    It just seems like government is content to sit back and do nothing.



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    #8040
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,390 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771985#Comment_120771985
    image.jpeg

    As I said, you can’t cultivate labour. But output has quadrupled in the 6 years between 2014 and 2020. Covid, changes in financial conditions and commodity price increases have complicated things since 2020 but delivery is still rather robust from what have seen, when you take all that into consideration.



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    #8041
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769452#Comment_120769452

    Because once in the country its an option to get employment. All those who come from deemed safe countries do it and they don't need a passport .



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