Is it time to join Nato

In the case of UNMIL, they were they as part of peace keeping efforts in the wake of the Liberian war. They weren't there in an aggressive capacity and fighting on behalf of a particular belligerent. That's the key difference between deployment on a UN peace keeping mission after a conflict has ended and deployment on an active shooting war as part of a NATO led operation against an enemy. The Liberian war had ended and we weren't there as a combatant.

The same goes for EUFOR in Chad, and UNAMET, INTERFET and UNTAET in East Timor.

With ETUM, we're there only as a training element to help the Malian Army, which no longer the case and has moved to an advisory role to HQ instead. This was most likely prompted by allegations of human rights abuses by Malian troops last year alongside the Wagner Group. And our already limited presence has been largely reduced.

That our troops may come under fire during these operations is a given, when the sometimes unstable situations are taken into account. And I never said that either A. they're "rarely in danger" or B. they can "ONLY raise arms when they shot at."

However, they are NOT on any UN peace keeping mission to actively fight a particular enemy as part of particular side. That's simply not their role.

Yes, that's what the propagandists are telling us... but we've been getting this same nonsense for well over a year now.

Russians in disarray, Ukrainian victory any day now. It's garbage.

You've got to seriously be a bit of a simpleton at this stage, to still be swallowing this stuff.

This conflict was over back in September last year, when Russia annexed the four territories. That was the moment the Ukrainians/NATO lost this conflict - and those territories are permanently gone now. Russia will defend those territories for however long it takes, until NATO gives up and goes home. Even if it takes 20 years... and they are more than capable of creating a permanent military dead-lock.

All we've really been witnessing since that point, is Ukraine sacrificing more men and equipment fighting for a lost cause. And that's all we will continue to see, for however long this conflict goes on. Lots of propaganda, but little or no actual tangible progress on the battlefield.

We can't attract people to join our armed forces, due to pay and other nonsense. We would have no hope joining nato as we are not in a position to offer a substantial contribution to manpower or equipment.

I can't explain it to you in any simpler terms. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But it really isn't difficult to understand.

The issue lies with you. I've explained numerous times and in numerous ways what I mean, which you claim to have understood the first time, yet continue to drag this tangent out with more confusion.

You said "I'm not massively interested in getting into the semantics of what "fighting capacity" actually means though", yet you're doing exactly that. Despite the fact that I've made the point clear in the first place.

Do you really want me to explain it again, because the post above suggests that you DON'T understand the point being made.

Let me get this straight. You don't agree that the Irish Defence Forces are involved in UN peace keeping operations in a mainly non-aggressive role?

It's involved in a pretty big one at the moment (I know it's not official ) but still we all know it's involved in it.

why dont they just ring fence the tv license money for NATO if they are so mad for us to join?

I dont think there is any benefit to us joining another bloated beaurcratic organisation with questionable goals. other than for the sake of appearances that is.