Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

Could easily reform the GFA and some are already calling for that.

Not familiar with the numbers but wouldn't SF, SDLP and Alliance be enough of a bloc to change things? Could be put to a referendum.

Great question. Has just created the solution of solutions. Why doesn’t francie campaign for a United ireland that includes Scotland, wales and England. I’m up for that. It’s a no brainier. You can have the parliament in Dublin. I reckon most Brits would be ok with it. Will open roi up to diversity and they may even stop playing a catholic call to prayer every night - or at least include a Muslim one. Is that a possible solution no one has thought of?

What makes you think it will make any difference to the DUP?

In a UI the country moves on without them...or anyone else who behaves similarly.

In NI the place cannot move on.

If you took the time to do proper research you would know that long before Brexit, the GFA was grinding to a halt due to belligerence and obstruction.

The kinda of behaviour you would expect from a party who never signed up to it to begin with and still haven't.

It will just keep happening. It has failed.

They agreed to implement already agreed legislation.

They could have done that at anytime and indeed did after a year but the DUP pulled the rug from under their negotiators just like they did with Theresa Mays deal with the EU.

Anyone who claims to know about NI should know of these patterns of behaviour.

Burning is illegal here downcow for environmental reasons. And it is not just in this country.

You will need to change the law. If you get rid of the sectarianism and bigotry on display you may be able to persuade but as I have observed the law since it came in and seen the benefits I won’t be supporting it.

I also don’t think that is where the world is headed.

Well that’s great news about the new masters being prepared to embrace ulster-British culture. Some posters are saying the opposite that, eg UB culture like bonfires will be gone in a year, even though they currently allow bonfires for various cultural/religious reasons.

the Irish regard roi as open and diverse, not many others do.

the bells - let’s not go there again.

Ireland is widely regarded as open and diverse, and its pivot over a generation or so to a striking degree of openness and diversity has been the subject of much international notice and comment. If downcow isn't aware of this, is that perhaps indicative of the rather narrow range of perspectives to which people in NI get exposed?

Diversity is hard to measure and of course it can mean different things — e.g. does ethnic diversity for a country mean simply having people of different ethnic or racial backgrounds, or does it mean being open and inclusive to people of different ethnic or racial backgrounds? Measuring the former is much easier than measuring the latter, but the former can simply be the result of conquest and/or colonisation; in terms of social progress the latter is much more important.

Still, difficult and all as it is, people do try to quantify these things. Here, for example, is the inclusiveness index produced by Berkeley University. It examines "the degree of institutional inclusion and protections extended to vulnerable groups across salient social cleavages, such as gender, race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, and (dis)ability" and ranks countries according to various criteria and overall. Ireland is ranked 9th in the world in the overall rankings. (1st — New Zealand; last — Yemen. Since you'll undoubtedly ask, the UK is 16th.) Hard to categorise 9th out of 136 as "at best, very ordinary".

That is the clear and obvious solution.

How is the GFA an 'obvious' solution when the DUP haven't signed up to it?

They will just continue with their attempts to veto rights and any democratic decisions the people take.

Your lack of knowledge of the real politik and what is going on in NI is alarming to say the least.

(1) You say that Sinn Fein cannot produce a plan because no single party can produce a plan

(2) You say that the Irish Government could produce a plan because a single party to the Agreement can produce a plan

There are massive holes in your logic.

I said that reform of the GFA is an obvious solution.

The next logical step in the evolution of relations on these islands is a reform of the GFA.

East-West relations should be strengthened in respect of giving the Irish government greater say on human rights issues such as the Legacy Bill and language rights.

North-South relations should be strengthened in respect of economic ties in line with the Protocol

Devolution should be strengthened with a move towards normal democratic majorities, because of the strengthened role of the Irish government on human rights issues.

The conditions for a border poll should be further clarified, e.g. first a clear and obvious indication that it is likely to be passed, second, a period of preparation, third, an initial poll, fourth, negotiations on the implementation of a united Ireland, fifth, a second poll to confirm acceptance of the arrangements.

That reformed GFA will bring a greater depth of maturity to the political arrangements in the North.