Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

I agree it is very hard to measure. Please don’t attack me here but it is my perception that Ireland / the Irish hold themselves in very high regard around their eg hospitality, friendliness, craic, etc. As well as stereotyping themselves positively, they often stereotype others negatively, particularly the English, and on here the northerners or the prods. Many don’t have much regard for travellers etc.

so I think they are just ‘very ordinary’. I think we don’t have much but perception. I my experience, no one comes close to Muslim families for hosting the stranger/visitor. I was just watching a news item a couple of weeks ago around racism in ni. The person interviewed had move from Dublin and was complaining about racism. He said it was more subtle here and more rovers and in your face in Dublin, but existed in both.

we only need to read this forum to see that people are more interested in eg defending the religious bells or the partisan flags at all-island teams, than to look at reaching out and learning.

Mon a positive ireland has made an impressive journey from being probably the most exclusive, mono cultural place in Europe, to reach a ‘very ordinary’ place in European countries.

They don't need to sign up to a reformed GFA, the two governments can impose it on the children of the two main sectarian parties.

Think about it, if we had majority government, the Alliance Party would be in power permanently, picking between which of the two sectarian parties is being less childish after each election.

Of course it will, if the DUP can no longer block the Assembly (or Sinn Fein repeat their three-year long antics for that matter), then the primary issue will be sorted, and both parties will be stuck. They could of course boycott the Assembly, but would have no practical effect.

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So you accept the DUP veto then?

If you support the right of the DUP to a veto on future arrangements, you should oppose my proposal. If you reject the right of the DUP to a veto on future arrangements, why are you raising it as an issue with my idea?

It appears like you are only against the DUP veto when it blocks Sinn Fein, but if the Irish government or the Alliance Party come along with ideas, the DUP are fully entitled to veto.

I think you’ll find if you add up all the time dup have vetoed the functioning of the assembly and add up the time sf have vetoed the functioning of the assembly, I think the dup are still not even halfway there. But hey, this is history again.

going forward, if the dup get some of the changes they seek then the assembly will be up and running again. Democracy is a bollocks, isn’t it

Nonsense again.

SF walked out of the coalition over something the coalition could fix. They fixed it a year later only for the belligerents in the DUP to block it…AGAIN.

The DUP are holding the people to ransom over something the Executive can’t fix. Evidence? Who have the DUP submitted their ransom to?

Clue: It is not the Executive.

Add to that all the rights and agreed legislation the DUP have blocked and vetoed and Petitioned of Concerned and your version of ‘history’ looks like the fantasy it is.

They wanted Foster to stand aside and when she wouldn’t their frustration with the years of DUP blocking of things already agreed and rights available to everyone on these islands (a border in the Irish Sea when it suits their fundamental beliefs they foist on everyone) boiled over. They did what is acceptable in any democracy anywhere, they left the coalition.

Westminster made the WF law, did the DUP walk out of Westminster? No they held the people of NI hostage.

That behaviour won’t work in a UI, which will make it attractive to those who are fed up in the north. ‘DUP doing Sinn Fein’s work’ as Doug Beattie said today

They walked because Arlene Foster would not stand aside and frustration with continued DUP intransigence and blocking.

All of it could have been resolved within the Executive. A year later they did a deal on rights, which was welched on again.

The two PM’s were even on their way when it was welched on. You will probably shoot the messenger again but it’s all in here:

Not playing your games.

I put an answer there with back up from a respected journalist and his sources.

If you have something to say, say it.

Here’s some more back up - Adams saying it was the RHI scandal AND their ‘attitude to powersharing’ that caused the walkout.

I already answered. If it’s not the answer you want then that is your problem.

I also backed up what I claimed.

You are reading what I said wrong.

I said, they walked out over something the coalition could fix(see above) RHI and not powersharing properly, continued blocking of rights etc.

They (the coalition of SF and the DUP) fixed it a year later via negotiation, see Eamonn O’Mallie) only for the DUP backroom boys to welch again.

Make your point. Not playing anymore.

Well I haven’t a clue what you think you have shown here. Perhaps some of these others might be forthcoming.

I suspect you read the original comment wrong thinking I said ‘SF fixed’ when I clearly said ‘they’ (the coalition) fixed it via negotiation and you are now saving face.

But what is completely accurate is that bringing down the NI institutions because of what the NI institutions are doing is materially different, and much easier to justify, than bringing down the institutions because of what Westminster is doing.

People pointing to SF's actions to defend or justify the DUP's are basically admitting that they have no credible defence/justification to offer. Which is probably not the impression they are trying to create.

I have not attempted to defend or justify the DUP's actions so you can take me out of that category.

My argument is for amendments to the GFA by both governments over the heads of the two childish actors in the North to ensure that the Assembly cannot be brought down for whatever reason.

Finally, if someone is trying to discern and differentiate between what Sinn Fein and the DUP have done in bringing down the Assembly, they are basically defending Sinn Fein's actions, which is probably not the impression they are trying to create.