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President Biden closes gun control speech in USA with 'God save the Queen'

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Everyone knew what you meant, in the same manner as it’s ridiculous to attempt to undermine anyone’s point when they slip up, but their intent was clear.

    It’s funny when it happens, as opposed to the humourless dryballs who try to make out there’s anything more to it than just a slip up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,506 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Perhaps he accidentally leaked/tipped that Iran and Russia are trying to gain a political/military foothold/expansion in Iraq and that Cold War 2 in Iraq is not going well for Putin right now?

    Overall, we can conclude that Iran and Russia’s collaboration in Iraq is a marriage of convenience –a result of common enemies rather than common interests.

    Cause heck, they already invaded Georgia too right, and are building alliances with Iran, Turkey, etc. and Russia already has clear aims -designs rather, of domination of the Black Sea.

    Bet your asses by the way Russia would love to see the US/West tied up/preoccupied in Israeli bullshit, ICYMI the increased tensions and violence lately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    That’s not being fair though. It’s being completely unreasonable, because the implication is that the person is unfit for public office on the basis of a slip up like that. It was nothing more than a slip up, it doesn’t justify claiming a person is unfit for public office. Being fair would be recognising that slip ups like that can happen to anyone, especially to those people in public office who are under constant media scrutiny.

    Taking those sort of gaffes seriously requires a level of pearl clutching that goes beyond reasonable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    You’re right- everyone knows the Iraq war is over, so from my point of view - where’s the big deal in Biden making a slip up like he did, or the many numerous times he’s slipped up previously? Saying it’s not on that a public figure makes a slip up is just unreasonable IMO. Like I said earlier, it’s just funny when it happens, an awkward moment, but to use that to claim someone is unfit for public office? That’s being unreasonable.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If a CEO of a company came out with these many gaffes about the company and the market etc., they'd be removed by the board.

    It's remarkable that this is somehow political. He's 80, four years past the life expectancy of an American male. It isn't political to look at someone saying these things and conclude they shouldn't be in office till they're 85-86. The words of the US president are pretty much the most important in the world and his control over them is less and less.

    It takes a serious cognitive effort to see them and ignore them. It requires nothing but common sense to see them and be concerned, the same way we'd be concerned about a family member continuing to drive etc. when losing it.

    There should be age limit put on the presidency so questions about whether or not they're suitable to lead into their mid-80s don't turn political. Not a single person here would have supported that notion up until recently.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    If a CEO of a company came out with these many gaffes about the company and the market etc., they'd be removed by the board.


    They wouldn’t, and there are numerous examples where they haven’t been, because CEOs, just like politicians, are more generally assessed on their companies or their countries performance, as opposed to the idea that they would be removed by the board for their PR blunders if the company or the country were performing well. It’s not political, but some people will choose to make it political based on their own personal beliefs, and they will look for any opportunity to make a big deal out of nothing as though everyone should be as concerned as they’re pretending to be. Here’s an example of the pot calling the kettle black -

    https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-mocks-joe-biden-making-another-gaffe-tv-speech-2022-7?amp


    And Bill Gates is practically a walking gaffe machine in terms of his history of ill-judged opinions -

    https://www.businessinsider.com/the-dumbest-things-bill-gates-ever-said-2016-4?amp


    And of course, just some people are eager to do with anything Biden says, there are times when some people will take what was said out of context in order to infer something which they’re fully aware was not the intent -



    It has nothing to do with the person’s age, and everything to do with the attempts by some people to look for any reason to portray someone as being incapable of being up to the task.

    There’s no age limit on driving either, the relevant criteria in your example is that the person is losing it, and that can happen at any age, it still wouldn’t mean they couldn’t drive, much and all as their relatives would be concerned that they were losing it. There’s no evidence to support the idea that Biden is losing his marbles, and every indication that he could well be elected again as President -

    The president’s ratings in the most recent poll vary starkly by party. More than 8 in 10 Democrats approve of Biden’s job performance, while 6 percent of Republicans say the same. Forty-one percent of independents approve — and the Gallup report notes the overall uptick in Biden’s rating comes from that demographic.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4068538-biden-approval-rating-highest-since-august-gallup/



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    to support the idea that Biden is losing his marbles

    You don't have to be losing one's marbles to not be fit for president. And people aren't really calling for him to step down, they're arguing that he shouldn't run again. That is perfectly reasonable considering it's 2023 now and if he wins, he will exit office in January 2029.

    There’s no evidence

    Of course not, if you see evidence as politically motivated attacks. I'd like a younger more articulate Democrat to run and win. 2029 is really really far way for an 80-year-old doing the most important job in the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    True, but you’re overlooking the fact that it’s for that very reason people are claiming Biden is unfit for office, as well as every other straw they’re attempting to clutch at in order to support their claim that he was unfit ever to be elected president in the first place.

    There’s no evidence to support the idea that Biden is losing his marbles. Subjective opinions of people who are concerned, does not constitute evidence of anything other than their overestimating of their own abilities.

    I’d argue that being a father is the most important job in the world (hey I’m biased 😂), and Al Pacino has proven that age is no barrier to fatherhood, he’s likely to see 2029 and then some, where it’s entirely possible his child could be a presidential candidate in 2060. They’d likely make a better candidate than the gobshyte descendant that has JFK doing 9,000 RPM in his grave 😒



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    you realise that all these countless “gaffes” and slip ups indicate serious cognitive deterioration and that this kind of mental decline could manifest itself in all sorts of ways in a person with power, control and key decision making to a level which is responsible for the fate and wellbeing of hundreds of millions, if not billions of lives globally?

    that’s anything but “funny”, it’s terrifying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I can understand how one can dream up all sorts of fantastical scenarios that have no basis in reality when they perceive gaffes as being indicative of serious cognitive deterioration in other people, and to those people all I would suggest is that they look in a mirror - their own mental health is clearly in danger of serious cognitive deterioration should they continue to exhibit that sort of behaviour.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,616 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    CEO's are judged by their performance, a metric which is secondary for politicians. They're also not above gaffes and missteps themselves. People like Elon Musk come to mind.

    Secondly, companies have a wide pool from which to choose a CEO. The American public get a choice of two in a semi-rigged system. It's not a good comparison. Nevertheless, Biden is getting work done while Trump did nothing but stoke tensions, foster corruption and set equality back decades with his supreme court appointments. The US is barely a democracy in my view. A group of people in black can arbitrarily remove rights, only two people are allowed to put themselves forward to be head of state and don't even start me on GOP gerrymandering.

    To be clear, Biden has form for gaffes but the faux concern on display in this thread is fooling nobody since there was no such concern when Trump was recommending injecting bleach for covid.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Third reply on this thread was you bringing Trump into it. 24 pages later, you're still going on about him. What does my post have to do with Trump?

    Does he have to die or something for anything else to matter? American politics is like Northern Ireland politics it seems, where as long as you can point the finger and say "but what about", you can dismiss anything.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭hometruths


    And Bill Gates is practically a walking gaffe machine in terms of his history of ill-judged opinions -

    That comparison is a bit of a stretch to be fair.

    Gates' ill-judged opinions according to the Business Insider article are just a list of predictions that hindsight showed he got wrong. As they put it - The Dumbest Things Bill Gates Has Ever Said. A few examples:

    "The next generation of interesting software will be done on the Macintosh, not the IBM PC," said Bill Gates in a BusinessWeek article in 1984.


    "I see little commercial potential for the internet for the next 10 years," Gates allegedly said at one Comdex trade event in 1994, as quoted in the 2005 book "Kommunikation erstatter transport."


    And in 2004, Gates gave us this doozy in a BBC interview: "[E-mail] spam will be a thing of the past in two years' time."

    I suspect there are more than a few business outsiders who would love to be as dumb as Bill Gates and got as many things wrong as he has, when it comes to the business of software and the internet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Yeah but you’re kinda missing the point that was being made by Ads which I was responding to - the idea that if CEOs were to make similar gaffes, the board would be calling for them to step down. It’s just not true. If the company were performing well, nobody cares if the CEO were to do something monumentally stupid like smoke pot during a live interview, that might even contribute to their image of a super cool CEO… 👌

    Losing half the company’s value almost overnight though… let that sink in indeed 😂



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭hometruths


    I understand the point Ads was making, and I would tend to agree with it, certainly in a publicly quoted company. I cannot think of any company who would or has kept on a CEO making the type and volume of gaffes Biden has.

    Of course I may be wrong and there are examples I do not know about, but Bill Gates definitely is not one of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I wouldn’t have thought of him as the first example to come to mind if Gates didn’t meet the criteria Ads was suggesting. He has a history of making gaffes, there are many CEOs who do, but because the company is successful, there’s no board calling for them to step down.

    Similarly, if Biden’s gaffes were of the type and volume that were as serious as you’re trying to make out, his own Administration (the equivalent of the board), would be calling for him to step down. They’re not.

    His rivals, and those who were always looking for reasons to undermine him, were always looking for any excuse to portray Biden as unfit. Similarly, rivals of the CEO or people with a beef against the company will always try to undermine the CEO or the company (Zuckerberg is another example).

    Nobody is convinced, let alone concerned, about his opponents concern for Biden’s faculties, or for the idea that he is unfit to serve as President, or that he’s going to be too old if he runs again. People are far more invested in his administration’s policies, than they are bothered about personality politics.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭hometruths


    I take your point re the question of his opponents faculties or fitness for office, and therein lies the difference and difficulty with the CEO comparison.

    I suspect if Biden was CEO of a public company, and people had concerns about his age and potential cognitive decline, but the question was whether or not to remove him and replace him with Trump, most boards and shareholders would choose to retain him on the grounds that whatever problems he might have, it is better than the alternative. It is a Hobson's choice.

    But it would still be reasonable for the board and shareholders to have concerns for the future of the company on account of his age and potential cognitive decline, and lament the fact that they were unable to find a better candidate for the job than Biden or Trump.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    There was no point re the question of his opponents faculties or fitness for office.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Joe Biden made reference to the Iraq War for Ukraine twice yesterday, on two separate occasions, not once.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Apologies, I misread this:

    Nobody is convinced, let alone concerned, about his opponents concern for Biden’s faculties, or for the idea that he is unfit to serve as President, or that he’s going to be too old if he runs again.

    Nonetheless, I think the comparison with a CEO doesn't allow for the Hobsons choice concerning Biden and Trump.

    A public company is unlikely to find themselves in a position where there is only one alternative. Amazing that a country of 300m people has this problem, but there you go.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    Yeah but that doesn't mean anything because Trump. You can't even suggest he might be suffering from some sort of decline because Trump. This is what the world has come to!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Because deflecting to Trump is far, far easier than defending the indefensible in what we witness with Biden.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,542 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The point with referencing Trump is that a large number of the posts on this thread raising 'concerns' would never do any such thing about Trump. No matter his gaffes, no matter his stumbles, no matter what absolute nonsense he comes out with. Trump opens his mouth and incriminates himself, he further defames the victim of his sexual assault.

    Biden's gaffes are of no consequences. God Save the Queen, Man - consequence nil. Black and Tans v All Blacks zero consequence.

    It demonstrates that the basis for the attacks is deflection - from Trump and other Republican scandals. Scandals of real consequence.

    It demonstrates the insincerity of the attacks, that they are motivated by political partisanship and nothing more.

    Biden was in Ireland with a hectic itinerary, gave multiple speeches and public events.

    If someone thinks an 80 year old is too old to be President, that's their opinion, fine as long as they apply it equally.

    But when people make specific allegations about Biden or someone being unfit for offence, that is a higher threshold, they need to back it up.

    There's absolutely zero evidence presented on the thread that Biden is unfit for office. Lots of weasel words. No real evidence.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,542 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Attacking Biden with scurrilous nonsense is easier than defending Trump's indefensible conduct. Conduct with real consequences for the victim of his sexual assault, people injured, killed and jailed in the January 6th attack on the Capitol he stirred up, and it is plausible to suggest consequences for US assets due to Trump's reckless conduct with classified information.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,616 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Exactly. They say that Biden has dementia but cannot prove it simply because it is not true. Meanwhile, they've spent over half a decade defending a proven fascist who's been impeached twice and found guilty of sexual assault. There's not a shred of honesty or good faith here.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Is it an obsession or is it just highlighting a pattern?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,542 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Sure show us your posts highlighting 'patterns' with regard to Trump's conduct?

    If you are concerned about the conduct and fitness for office of leading US political figures, should be easy to do.

    Or own up to the blatant partisan basis for these attacks.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Let's assume for a moment that your partisan point was true, how would that undermine the case levelled against Biden on this thread?

    It doesn't. The evidence stands on its own merits, independent of whether someone is making a partisan point or not. Remember, over 40pc of Democrats do not want Biden to run. In other words, it's possible to be non-partisan on this question.

    The vast majority of people can see that Biden is well past his prime. The only minority position, indeed the most extreme position to hold, is one that argues that Joe Biden has mentally never had it better; the most self-discrediting position of all. The position you have decided to adopt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,542 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It is true. As any cursory examination of post history on this forum would establish.

    It is possible to be non-partisan on this question, but you are not.

    If you think an 80 year old is unfit to be President say so. You will not because that will bring Trump into its scope.

    If you think an 80 year old has cognitively declined say so. You will not because that will bring Trump into its scope.

    This demonstrates the case presented as being insincere, motived purely by partisanship to focus on inconsequential gaffes and try to generate a mountain out of a molehill.

    The evidence stands on its own merits - and there is no evidence Biden is unfit for office.

    Nobody has suggested Biden has 'mentally never had it better'. Blatant strawman. We've argued Biden is fit for office.

    What else did that poll say - come on? You referenced the poll yet continually ignore what else it said. This is another example of the blatant partisanship on display

    The vast majority of Democrats—81%—say they’re likely to support Biden in a general election if he does run, however, with 41% saying they would “definitely” vote for him and 40% saying they “probably” would.

    The poll also found 43% of respondents would probably or definitely vote for Biden, while only 35% said the same of Trump.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    In my previous responses, I didn’t mention Trump, because as far as I’m concerned he is of no relevance whatsoever. I don’t have to defend Biden either because there has been no evidence produced that he is unfit for office. None. Not one single piece of evidence to support the claim that Biden is unfit for office.

    He said Iraq once, he said Iraq twice, third times a charm. It’s of no consequence or importance whatsoever. If all you’ve got is a catalog of gaffes, those kinds of claims have been aimed at every President in an attempt to undermine them. What makes Biden any different?



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