Ladies footballers and camogie will play 'under protest' over lack of progress on welfare

The women off ireland.

I thought these ladies WERE the elite, no? Shouldn't they be subsidising the rest of the ladies' teams, using your analogy? Why would they need to be subsidised if they're the elite?

Also, "setting out the framework" is for the respective organisations to sort out between themselves. The players/members of the organisations don't get to dictate the terms. The LGFA and the camogie heads can barter and negotiate the terms and put it to the members to vote on.

"Why are some obsessed with the money"...........The whole point of this argument stems from money. The ladies' teams haven't got the funding for proper transport, facilities, equipment etc as you'd expect for top level teams. This is because they haven't got the funds to do so, and are looking to integrate with the GAA so that they will have access to those funds (which are currently GAA funds). If they HAD the money, would they be looking to integrate, do you reckon? Cos I sure as **** don't.

You cannot have this discussion without reference to the finances involved, it's literally the entire reason for the integration happening, is it not?

That would suit them alright to have a laying hen.

I think you're conflating two separate considerations: access to facilities at a local level, and funding for inter-county teams.

On the first, as mainly a hurling man myself, I'd have concerns about how hurling/camogie is treated by your club. But fact of the matter is that some clubs just do have distinct preferences for one over the other. I know of many other clubs where hurling hardly gets a look-in either, but I also know of many where football is only ever an afterthought. Unfortunate, but that's the way it is in such places.

On other points...not sure so sure all of yours are accurate either, and in fact, I'm 100% sure that one of them is inaccurate.

Firstly, does your club's football team really get warm meals after training on a weekly basis? Not saying it doesn't happen, but it would be highly unusual at club level. Best our lads (hurling or football) get is a few sandwiches if we've hosted a practice match and the other club has come a long distance to play (usually from some other county).

If you're in the habit of throwing out hot dinners to lads just after training at least once a week, you must be a very big and financially well-off club altogether. Fair play to you.

Anyway, the one that simply can't be accurate...your claim that "local clubs earn a lot of money from membership that is from female players along with male".

Not a single GAA club in the country receives even a cent in player membership from females. How could they, when females don't actually play any sport that's governed by the GAA?

And likewise, not a single camogie or ladies football club gets even a single cent in player membership from male players.

Thanks. Still unusual for club players to regularly get a hot meal after training, but if your club manages it, then fair play. I'd say our lads would love the same!

Again speaking as mainly a hurling man myself, I'd be concerned about that other situation in your club, and I'd consider your football manager as being highly unreasonable. That sort of thing would never be tolerated at a club here in Wexford, where more than 90% of club players play both codes. Even if an individual club has a strong preference for one code over the other, or is one of the small number of single-code clubs we have, it doesn't try to stop them playing the other one altogether.

On the family membership thing, are you sure the GAA club keeps the portion of it that's meant to cover the girls? As in, the camogie and LGFA clubs don't actually get membership fees for those girls?

I ask because my club operates something similar with a membership option that has a number of benefits including underage membership for all children in a family up to age 18 (coincidentally, also for €300). Underage membership here is €40 for GAA, €20 for camogie, and €20 for LGFA. If a family with girls playing underage happens to take the €300 option, the GAA passes on the girls' portion of that money to the camogie and LGFA clubs.

So for example, if a family with three boys takes that option, the GAA club gets and keeps €300. But if that family has just one boy and two girls, while the GAA club still gets €300 initially, it only keeps €220 and passes over the other €80. Are you sure something similar doesn't operate in your own place?

presumably not doing media stuff I guess

Going to throw the cat among the pigeons here, but just for the sake of Devil's Advocate.....

Does the fact that there are still dual players in camogie/ladies football mean that they simply do not put in the same commitment and effort into either code as the men do, despite what the female players always claim when seeking equal treatment/facilities?

It's been several years since dual players were commonplace in the GAA. Lee Chin was the last of them here in Wexford when he had a year or two with our footballers about ten years ago now, and even then, he was one of a dying breed.

The time, effort, and commitment needed to play either inter-county hurling or inter-county football today is so great that nobody who does one can also manage the other.

So, if an inter-county camogie player can also commit to inter-county ladies football, does it follow that she simply mustn't have to give the same commitment to camogie as her male counterpart has to give to hurling?

As I said, just throwing it out there. Devil's Advocate, and all that......

Still training twice a week for both codes.....?

To me thats significant effort and commitment. And then 'have' to play two games on the same day...

But i dont think the effort and/or commitment is the issue - You are coming at it from the opposite side?

Its that the two organisations are not working together (look at the carry on in Cork for example) ..

Would the GAA put Gf matches on the same day as Hurling? No, no they wouldnt.

Thats the main issue the players have- Im not sure what the players 'levels' of commitment have to do with the players grievances ?

"almost impossible" - mainly due to the way the 2 organisations seemingly work against , not with, each other.

I think you're mixing up the two issues.

Yes, Camogie Association and LGFA should work more closely together to ensure there are no clashes of fixtures for so long as dual players are still involved.

But my suggestion is that if a camogie/ladies football player can find the time and commitment to play both at inter-county level, when no man can, then either:

a) the time and commitment needed for the women's games isn't as great as that for the men's, or

b) these women are superhuman athletes altogether, able to do things that no man can. Not even somebody like our own Lee Chin in his prime, generally regarded as one of the greatest athletes in the GAA.

Incidentally, I can't speak for other counties, but I do know that during the League and championship campaigns, our senior hurlers and footballers were generally training together three times a week.

I also know that our senior camogie and intermediate LGFA teams (the highest grade we have) are currently training only twice a week.

Relevant because each time the female players make a claim for equality in facilities and entitlements to playing gear/meals/travel expenses etc., they argue along the lines of "we put in the same time and effort as the men, so we should be treated the same". I'm suggesting it may be inaccurate for them to say this.

And despite what somebody else said above, still playing Devil's Advocate here.

All three associations went for the split season. Female club players lives matter

They do matter but when their association hasn't a pot to piss in it should be looking at ways to get maximum expose and generate funding.

Hes only playing 'devils advocate' ..........

My daughter wanted myself and the mrs to go to a game that her colleague was playing in. When we saw the ticket prices we declined. She actually thought it would only be a couple of euro and didnt go herself after she found out the price of it. A few other colleagies of theirs decided not to go too. To attract crowds there must be value for the amount asked to attend. There is no value in the LGFA. Tickets should be free if you want people to go to those games. I dont know if its still the same now as that was a while ago.

I don't think they should be free but anything more that €10 for group championship game is to much and all kids under 16 should be free.

I would be better off them to get a tenner of 400 people than 20 quid off 200 if they want to get a bit off support behind them.

The GPA arent the LGFA or Camogie association. The 3 associations agreed to initiate a merger and the GPA asked the 3 associations how are they going to going about improving the conditions for female players. That's the nub of the issue

Sorry meant to include that.

Theres plenty of money in the GAA coffers.

And when the 3 amalgamate, that money would then be spread between the 3 organisations under the GAA umbrella.

including some of the €21mill in state funding !!

I'm fully aware that it's the GPA leading the current call and the current actions, and that the GPA is distinct from the GAA, Camogie Association, and LGFA.

But since the question being asked of the three organisations is how they'll improve the conditions for female players, the first part of the answer simply has to be "well, first we'll need to find more money for them". And as continuously pointed out, neither the Camogie Association nor the LGFA has a single proposal on how to do that themselves.

Furthermore, CEO of the GPA, Tom Parsons, is already on record in calling for the GAA to provide equal expenses to female players as they do to males. Back to the nub of the issue again.

And there's the nub of the issue again. "The GAA has plenty of money, so let them share it out to the other organisations".

I've explained several times already why it's not as simple as that.

Shambolic ...

Its not 'all about the money'.........

Shambolic fixture appointments, and the half arsed attempts to try fix it - 2-3 days before the fixtures are due to be played.....

Shambolic ......

Imagine what the GAA are thinking when they see the fcuk ups the Camogie and LGFA constantly make !?

There’s no place for dual players at elite level anymore anyway, be it Male or Female. For the tiny minority of county dual players I think they’d need to make decisions for themselves anyway.

I always found it to be a funny concept in this day-and-age that someone who’s considered in the Top 15 of one sport is also in the Top 15 of another completely different sport. A lot of classy players just getting left to the wayside by default.

Okay. Seems I misinterpreted your previous post. No offence, but sometimes I'm not quite sure what side of the fence you're on - sometimes you seem to be arguing in favour of full integration as soon as possible so that the GAA can wave a magic wand, and sometimes you seem to be on the other side.

'No Offence' ...🙄

Im putting forward both sides. Do i have to be on 'a side' ?

Im directly involved in Camogie, and a bit less with lgfa - I know how its run !

As i said from the outset - The Gaa have more to lose out of the integration - The Camogie Ass and LGFA have lots to gain

(*organisationally as well as financially)

*is that even a word ??

But yeh, i would agree. I think dual players at inter county elite/top level are not sustainable really.

Its not all about inter county players though !!

Theres lot of Club players that 'have to' play camogie and GF for their club due to lack of numbers etc......

And the lack of organisation/forethought etc is worse at that level !! not far off a shambles ... (in my county anyway)

And on this one...

Being a dual player at club level isn't unique to the women. Here in Wexford, more than 90% of our male players (including our inter-county hurlers and footballers) are dual players at club level. We've probably one of the highest percentages in the country that way.

And while we've had controversy in recent years over whether we keep our "club split season" of hurling first and then football, or revert to alternate weeks, these lads can play both club hurling and club football either way, without there ever being a clash of fixtures.

Also, in fairness to Camogie and the LGFA, they come together at the start of each year to put out a master calendar designating one week for club camogie, the next for club ladies football, and so on. I have this year's here myself.

The Wexford County Boards of both organisations stick to those weeks when making their own official club fixtures. I have all those here as well (I need all these things because one of my GAA roles is pitch scheduling for my club, so I need to know when matches are coming up).

However, there could still be two problems at club level with fixtures:

• Maybe some counties don't stick to the designated weeks.
• Camogie and LGFA fixtures tend to be more "flexible" than GAA ones, so you could have a camogie manager trying to re-arrange a match for a football week, or vice versa.

I suppose those things are back to the Associations not cooperating properly at local level. But at least at national level, there's some element of working together to avoid clashes of club fixtures.