The Sunday Game / GAAGO [Split from RTE thread]

icdg · 10-05-2023 2:24pm

It has been used (rarely) in the past yes, where RTE has covered simultaneous throw ins. That’s not the point. The point is that there is a limit to what RTE and VMTV can put resources into based on the advertising revenue they will earn (and RTE earn precisely €0 from games that air on the RTE News Channel, because it doesn’t carry advertising).

roadmaster · 10-05-2023 5:58pm

Oh Mr Virgin media why did you get involved

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-accuses-virgin-media-of-several-factual-errors-and-misleading-comments-as-gaago-controversy-intensifies/a956013143.html

icdg · 10-05-2023 6:03pm

That really leaves no room for reconciliation with the VMTV statement.

AJB39 · 10-05-2023 6:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120580178#Comment_120580178

Bet it won’t be their top story on their News at 7 tonight. They probably won’t mention it all. Unbelievably stupid for Virgin Media to get involved in the controversy given that they must have known that their inaccurate statement would be exposed.

roadmaster · 10-05-2023 6:29pm

I think the media coverage this is getting is insane. All thats going on in this country and the world and the lead storys across all media is GAAGO and the eurovision

Dick phelan · 10-05-2023 6:52pm

The hurling has been absolutely shafted by this. Put on two uncompetitive football games instead of Tipp vs Cork which anyone would know would be a far better game. This Saturday another Munster championship game on GAA Go its ridiculous. Also as someone who previously had GAA Go I certainly won't be paying for such a substandard product. It often lagged or cut out and the camera work was poor.

There are 2 RTE stations and TG4 yet they want us to fork out money for a subscription. I'm sorry what's the point of the license fee if they can't be arsed showing the highest level of our national game

Dick phelan · 10-05-2023 6:57pm

Also they have the RTE player so they could show games through that if there's no TV slot available

AJB39 · 10-05-2023 7:09pm

Well Virgin Media News did cover it. Apparently they stand over their statement. RTÉ, TG4, Virgin Media and Sky have all been invited to appear together before an Oireachtas committee, which should be interesting.

gormdubhgorm · 10-05-2023 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569774#Comment_120569774

I was thinking about it there - how many GAA games would the 'casual' GAA fan watch excluding the AI finals and semi-finals.

Two or three max? Normally people go to the games otherwise, fairly inexpensive easy to get tickets etc.

I mean 12 euro for a single game - 3 games for the price of 2 24 euro - or 79 for the full sub - clubs can buy sub for 150.

Good value and plenty of options.

I never had SKY sub - their GAA coverage was very hit and miss to be honest - they just loved going on about 'turnovers' 'possessions'.

But I like the GAA go system - lots of games and you can pick the ones you that might not otherwise be shown.

I paid 12 euro for the Dublin v Wexford hurling - cheaper than buying a ticket - better view (hurling not great live in CP) and atmosphere in an empty CP would be not great

To be honest I don't understand all the moaning? Thus far it seems to have been mainly hurling diehards? From 'traditional' counties. To be honest I think they are just been selfish - those high profile games - bring in more money for the GAA through this system - and a rising tide lifts all boats - it is funnelled back in to the system.

roadmaster · 10-05-2023 10:01pm

So we now have government ministers saying there will be extra gaa games on free to air. Who is going to pick up the tab?

The IRFU & FAI must be rageing they are now being dragged in to this. What is going to happen to our TDs little heads when they find out about LOITV and worse who part owns URCTV!

roadmaster · 27-06-2023 8:56am

I see GAAGo is making the headlines again over the 1/4 finals on Saturday not being free to air. I know i said in the past as a joke give them a saorview channell. But would it be possabile for the GAA to get a channell on the saorview platform to broadcast games or would the advertsing not be enoght to cover the costs and make a small profit?

icdg · 27-06-2023 9:55am

That’s was always the deal with the football quarter finals though - Sky had two of them. It might have been a slight bit different when the Super 8s were a thing but it always was the case that the secondary holder got a share of them. It’s their last action of the season.

Saorview is a ridiculously expensive platform to go on. There’s a reason why VMTV isn’t in HD on it. The rate card is set up to ensure 2rn make money but it makes it difficult for anyone else to make money on it. Let alone a channel that would only be in operation for four months a year. And the GAA aren’t in the broadcasting business, they’d need RTE or another partner that way who’d want a cut of the revenue (as RTE takes from GAAGO). If they want the games to be FTA, they’d just sell the rights to an existing free to air station rather than go to all that trouble.

roadmaster · 27-06-2023 11:29am

Its hard to know where they go with GAAGo. Taking the Mayo/Galway game of and putting it on rte 1 i think was a huge backing down.

howiya · 29-06-2023 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771981#Comment_120771981

Hardly a huge backing down. The list at the start of the year referred to two preliminary quarter-finals being shown on GAAGo and none on RTE. GAAGo ended up with 3 and RTE got one so they both got an extra game each.

roadmaster · 29-06-2023 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120782976#Comment_120782976

I taught when the fixture came out GAAGo was down to show it orginally and not rte but i could be wrong.

An today i see joe Brolly hoping on the Anti GAAGo band wagon over sarurdays games.

29-06-2023 9:48pm

That RTE is involved in the running of GAA Go is yet another symptom of why the dual funding model that they operate under is wrong. As for their ability to cover extra GAA games, they don’t need extra capacity via Saorview. They could do it via their player and have extra online streams as needed. It’s what the BBC will be doing for Wimbledon next week, with most of the matches that aren’t on BBC1 or 2 being online only.

icdg · 30-06-2023 9:40am

Unfortunately the likely, and ironic, consequence of all that we are seeing transpire is that commercial revenue will become more, not less important to RTE. But that’s for another thread.

As I feared, all these extra GAAGO games are creating an unrealistic expectation that all games be broadcast and there is a narrative out there that pines for the glory days of FTA. There were never any such glory days, I’m afraid.

Up until the early 1990s, only the men’s football and hurling All Ireland semi finals and finals were on TV. You wanted to watch a provincial match? Better go to the ground so, because that’s the only way you were seeing it live. There were some experimental live provincial matches from 1989 on but it was the mid-1990s before there was a weekly live game, and as recent as the 2000s before multiple live games were a thing. TV3 didn’t get involved as the first secondary rights holder until 2007.

Also, In its early years, the Sunday Game was the Sunday Game. As in it showed highlights of one game. Took a while for the wider selection of highlights to kick in, late 1980s.

So did this glory years of blanket FTA coverage ever exist? Arguably the only time that came close was the period TV3 were involved. Even then it was never the case that all Championship games were broadcast.

icdg · 02-07-2023 8:20am

GAAGO’s season comes to an end with a cracking tie, but not sure why it quite needed the giant “Extra Time” graphic on the bottom right of the screen, stretching from the scorebar nearly all the way to the DOG. It’s a pity because whatever else you think of GAAGO, they’ve brought a marvellously fresh approach to the on-air presentation of games at a time when the Sunday Game is tired and looks it (and no RTE, applying a wierd lens effect to the opening titles isn’t a refresh).

For next season, RTE really need to take a long hard look at the Sunday Game and give it a good refresh. I know they might approach that with fear given the hugely negative reaction the 2004 refresh (the last major revamp) got but it really is time now.

Just don’t touch Jagerlatein again, if they’ve learnt any lessons from the last time!

sliabh 1956 · 02-07-2023 8:32am

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of Gaago why wasn't their a Saturday Game last night to show the highlights instead of cramming the four games into tonight's show. If they had a Highlights show each time a Gaago game was being shown that at least might appease those who are unable to view the games on Gaago.

icdg · 02-07-2023 9:01am

That is a story in and of itself - the appearance, disappearance, reappeared, and second disappearance of the much vaunted second highlights show on a Saturday. Only six episodes of the Saturday Game aired in 13 weeks and despite some blurb from RTE about the amount of tier 1 games that needed to be scheduled to justify it, it was really unclear as to what the criteria for it to air was. There were some Saturdays with top tier games it didn’t air. I suspect that ratings may have played a part.

roadmaster · 02-07-2023 9:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120794134#Comment_120794134

I wonder do the GAANow highlights on social media affect ratings

roadmaster · 03-07-2023 9:04am

Yesterday on the OTB paper review they had a nice rant about GAAGo and several journos yesterday in the sunday papers had a go. The GAA have said they will have a review at the end of the year. Its hard to know what will happen with the service

icdg · 03-07-2023 9:54am

Nothing, for the duration of this rights period. It’s going nowhere for the next few years and will remain part of the landscape.

The thing is that by moving the intercounty season earlier in the year the GAA has lost its attraction to Sky. It no longer fills its purpose of keeping subs active during the FAPL off season. The secondary rights holders involvement ends now on the first weekend of July. That’s the rub really.

So what can the GAA do now. They have a contract with GAAGO for the duration of this rights period. They could mutually end it but I doubt the other shareholder RTE would be willing to do so without compensation of some sort. Even if they did do it then what? Sky’s still not interested. VMTV only want rights where they don’t have to do any work on the actual OB front. TG4 have lots of GAA and LGFA already.

roadmaster · 10-07-2023 6:37pm

I seen yesterday they where discussing GAAGO yet again this time on The Week in Politics. If GAA had gone in partnership to run gaago with either a streaming service or even virgin instead of rte would there be such fake outrage?

The partnership seams to be only year to year with a review due this year. If the GAA coped themselves on and moved the season back to the normal window could they do some sort of deal with sky to broadcast games on there two saorview channels?

toggle toes · 10-07-2023 7:14pm

Our amateur game is been commmerlised to fill the coffers of RTE and the grap all association. I had conversations with many hard core supporters who unfortunately don't have the financial means to subscribe to GAA GO. These are the people who supported their county all their lives and have travelled all over the country to support their county colours.

The majority of thse supporters were old age pensioners who worked all their lives and are now on measly pensions. These are the supporters RTE and the GAA have forgotten about. I hope supporters and volunteers who give up their time to help referee and organize games the length and breath of this country come out and say enough is enough. Maked our national game free to as many supporters as possible.

roadmaster · 12-07-2023 8:42am

The Level of Sh1t that we will hear today from our elected reps will reach a new level. It will be interesting to see there reaction if anyone tells them what platform URCTV use

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0712/1394085-gaa-politics/

icdg · 12-07-2023 8:45am

RTE and GAA before Oireachtas committee today on this:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0712/1394085-gaa-politics/

As I say, the unreasonable expectation of all games being FTA is now being bandied about. If GAAGO disappears, and there is no replacement, then the likelihood will be that there will be a chunk of early round championship games that won’t make it to TV at all.

Let’s recap as well on potential replacements

Sky - don’t want it now, season is too early. And not FTA.

VMTV - don’t want rights they have to do OB work on

TG4 - committed to LGFA this time of year, and other stuff besides.

Premier - same as VMTV, don’t want OB work, and aren’t FTA.

ebbsy · 12-07-2023 12:24pm

Problem for RTE today has come at the worst possible time.

Limerick / Clare was the most stupid idea to put behind a paywall. They were on the back foot right away after that.

roadmaster · 12-07-2023 3:10pm

Going by the figures released today is GAAGO a success or Failure?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/gaago-controversy-gaa-dg-says-lowest-viewed-games-on-service-have-between-1000-and-1500-viewers/a97976571.html

icdg · 12-07-2023 3:21pm

The difficulty is that every single game in the Munster Hurling Championship is a potential cracker. Do you put them all on RTE? And if you do, do you have to give Leinster parity? If so, that’s five slots gone, which is about the most RTE could show (and is probably two games too many for RTE tbh).

Do you then ignore football for the duration of the provincial hurling championships? That wouldn’t go down too well north of the M6.

irelandrover · 12-07-2023 3:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842030#Comment_120842030

Looking at those figures you'd have to say its successful. The games that only get 1000 viewers just aren't attractive games for the neutral. If you put them on free to air TV they still wont be attractive.

roadmaster · 12-07-2023 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842089#Comment_120842089

Yeah i taught the figures were not to bad. They seam to make it clear it would be staying for the duration of the current contract period.

I didnt know it is auto renewal as well. Did the Sky rep say they might add the GAAGO app to there platform?

12-07-2023 11:05pm

One of the suggestions at todays Dail committee which discussed GAA Go was that they should copy the BBC and provide extra free to access streams like what was done at Wimbledon this year to cope with simultaneous matches. If RTE is providing the OB infrastructure for GAA Go, then it can use its player to do this IMO. Of course the player would need to be robust enough to cope with the extra capacity needed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5145g2y3g0o

howiya · 12-07-2023 11:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844094#Comment_120844094

Yeah but in that scenario, the BBC pay for the rights to the whole of Wimbledon. Its not comparable.

At present RTE pay the GAA for the rights to 31 championship games so that's what they show.

If RTE were willing to pay for extra games then maybe that suggestion would have some value. We know however that they're not.

In addition after weeks of the RTE controversy I don't think it would be a good use of the licence fee or any other income RTE have to be paying for extra games when someone else will show them.

The real problem here is that the GAA, as is their right, are monetising the rights to their games. It’s alright for <Mod: named person deleted> to monetise peoples love of GAA with a podcast or newspapers and TV companies to make money from GAA coverage but heaven forbid the GAA actually want to make some coin from their own product. Which is then reinvested in the game....

icdg · 13-07-2023 7:12am

No comments on named persons who aren’t here to defend themselves please.

Bear in mind that RTE incurs all the production costs but gets zilch additional revenue from red button/Player streams. In fact it may actually end up reducing advertising revenue, because it damages ratings for the “front channel” (to use the old Sky expression) game.

These ideas get suggested like there’s no additional cost and the money will magically appear to cover them.

The BBC don’t have to worry about this because they don’t sell advertising, and have a license fee income of about £3.5 billion as opposed to RTE’s €200 million. That money is potentially significantly about to drop if people go through with threats to boycott the license fee and sponsors are going to be harder to come after recent events. The future RTE is going to be smaller, not larger, perhaps significantly so, and the idea that they’ll have resources to go out and cover multiple games with no additional advertising on a regular basis (outside, maybe, of the last day of the provincial hurling championship perhaps) is not going to be a thing.

13-07-2023 9:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844197#Comment_120844197

It's at least partly comparable since RTE is a partner in GAA Go. I think the double charging accusation made at yesterdays Dail committee is valid. It's a consequence of what RTE is allowed to get away with under their dual funding way of doing things. At least when Sky had GAA rights you knew it was an entirely separate company.

howiya · 13-07-2023 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844763#Comment_120844763

There isn't any double charging. RTE laid out the figures yesterday.

There has been an increase in the number of GAA matches they show free to air whilst the licence fee hasn't increased.

Double charging implies you are paying twice for the same product. You are not. If you pay the TV licence you get access to the bundle of games that have been purchased with those funds. If you pay for GAAGo you are buying access to a different bundle of games. Two different products.

13-07-2023 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120845326#Comment_120845326

Ok, strictly speaking its not double charging, but its still one body (RTE) earning income from two fundamentally different type of revenue streams. Sky wouldn’t be allowed to do this, so RTE shouldn’t either.

howiya · 13-07-2023 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120846897#Comment_120846897

Sky have countless different revenue streams. I don't understand the point you are making.

icdg · 13-07-2023 4:32pm

Yeah, it’s a bit of an odd one. RTE have had three fundamentally different revenue streams since their inception - the tv license, advertising, and commercial revenue (CEL or whatever they call it now). Four once sponsorship was allowed.

I think there are plenty of reasons why RTE shouldn’t be involved in GAAGO mind, and the competition concerns are real and in my view serious. But “double taxation” is a false argument. Nobody is forced to pay for GAAGO at the point of committing a criminal offence if they don’t. They have other choices - not watching at all, watching the highlights on the Sunday Game, or even buying a ticket for the match! Nor are they being charged for something they have already paid for. These games are a separate package to the one RTE has used license fee money to pay for, and one presumes and hopes that RTE has not spent one penny of license fee payers money in GAAGO acquiring these rights (if they did, that is another significant problem in my view).

13-07-2023 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120846968#Comment_120846968

The license fee versus commercially derived income, plus advertising as mentioned by icdg above. RTE gains from all three. Sky only from the from the last two. I think there's a conflict of interest due to RTEs PSB obligations which isn't a factor with Sky.

howiya · 13-07-2023 6:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847224#Comment_120847224

Your first point was that RTE had two income streams and Sky only had one. Now its three versus two.

What in your opinion is the conflict of interest with their PSB obligations? Are they not meeting their obligations?

It's a common theme on social media that when RTE don't show something that some people want to see on television that people state that they're not meeting their public service remit. Particularly re sports.

decor58 · 13-07-2023 7:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847392#Comment_120847392

I have no interest in sport, but I wonder how much, some of the people arguing the issue here, pay to Sky to watch PL football. I for some reason got an offer last winter for GAAGO, I could be wrong but I think the cost was just short of 60euro, for an annual subscription.

icdg · 13-07-2023 8:35pm

It was, an early bird offer of €59 for a season ticket before New Years Eve (I think, could have been St Stephen’s Day). That also got you the bonus coverage of BBC NI league figures that were relegated to iPlayer and so weren’t available on linear here.

The pricing is not the issue it was made out to be, if you paid for a season ticket. Full price for Sky Sports and Sports Extra would cost you €80 per month, on top of your basic sub (unless you are on Now).

13-07-2023 8:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847392#Comment_120847392

Sorry, my mistake.

But what actually is RTE? Is the PSB side dominant, or is the impetus on the commercial/advertising side? I honestly don't know. We seem to have a murky opaque hybrid entity that doesn't have a clear vision of what it wants to be. Theres an opportunity now to sort it out IMO. Personally I would like the PSB side of things to take the lead and push things forward. If that means a smaller RTE doing less commercially orientated things, then so be it.

@decor58 If you signed up before 31 December it was €59 I think. If GAA Go is going to continue I'd like to see them offer a hurling or a football only package in addition to one showing both.

irelandrover · 13-07-2023 8:48pm

If GAA Go is going to continue I'd like to see them offer a hurling or a football only package in addition to one showing both

That's been my comment for the last 3 or 4 years. I've no interest in football so it was way too expensive for the amount of hurling games I watch.

howiya · 13-07-2023 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847885#Comment_120847885

Well the reality is if RTE becomes smaller and more public service orientated it will be showing less sport not more.

I take it then you'd have no issue with paying for games on GAAGo if RTE weren't involved. This seems to be your main concern?

13-07-2023 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848145#Comment_120848145

Yes, I have no issue with GAA Go if it was an entirely standalone entity. I actually ended up listening to alot of football commentaries over the summer on independent local radio. They get knocked a fair bit over their overall content, but their GAA coverage is excellent IMO.

roshje · 13-07-2023 9:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848145#Comment_120848145

It could be in the future that all games in the GAA will end up behind a paywall.

howiya · 13-07-2023 10:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848173#Comment_120848173

Fair enough but GAA said the reason they went with a partner is that they've no expertise in broadcasting.

I do get though that it could be a lot cleaner. It shouldn't have needed an Oireachtas committee hearing for an explanation as to how games are picked etc. A bit of transparency might have bought them more goodwill. GAA members should be provided with more information.

The Sunday Game / GAAGO [Split from RTE thread]

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