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Random EV thoughts.....

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I'd be happier if we moved to a system where tax was required to get insurance or vice versa, and remove all paper discs like they have in the uk. But thats not here



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,049 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Yep it works perfectly, saves you getting off the sofa and looking for the cert or walking out to the car in the rain to look at the disc😉 I do like ELM's Mr Burns number. I always pick the most obscure insurer in the drop down menu ☺️



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,284 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    Agreed, a joined up system would be better. It’s a bit ridiculous to have 3 paper discs here when they can manage with 1 in the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,049 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    It doesn't help eradicate uninsured driver detection, quite the opposite in fact. By it's very nature of being such a stupid unconnected to anything system it's allowing uninsured cars get a tax disc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭sh81722


    The paper plastered on the screen proves that you had insurance the day the insurance company sent the letter. The data might be already out of date between then and when the disc is displayed. The certificate of insurance is the same i.e. not worth the paper is printed on. "Show the bigger piece of the same printed page at the local station, yo". It should be just an automatic charge and eventually a fine if your car is either not taxed or declared off road. No ifs and buts. The system would then also flag if a car is taxed but not insured.

    Above can be updated practically in real time whenever a transaction happens and the cops mobile app would then be used to query the DB. Just use those Irish data centres since we have plethora of them here.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Beware most 3rd party driving policies don't cover you if you own the car, or your wife or partner own the car and sometimes if someone at the same household owns the car. The wording can be vague and some policies state it's for emergency use if your vehicle is broken.

    It's also a separate offence to not display an insurance disc in the window so if the car or your son does not have a policy then there may be no paper in the window.

    I would phone insurer before driving as a third party and confirm on the phone or ideally in writing that you are indeed insured.

    If parked in public parking wardens can also issue fines for no insurance disc displayed and your 3rd party insurance may not cover you when parked if there is no separate policy to cover the car. I had a Garda at a checkpoint stop me for no insurance disc displayed but I talked myself out of it. Even if insured it's a separate offence.

    I have heard of some dodgy people registering a car in a friend's name then driving under 3rd party every day but insurers keep tightening the 3rd party rules to prevent you driving a sporty car so often catches like max 2L engine, also typically commercial vans or car vans or commercial jeeps are not included.

    In terms of tax, yes you can put in any random insurance policy number but I assume gardai can pull that info including contact number, address, email etc and may try use that info. Of you have a policy best to put in correct info if you can.

    Insurance in Ireland us a minefield and every policy is different and the costs tend to be crazy high.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    They have no discs in the UK

    Not "most", only a few. I actively make sure I have insurance cover for all cars, regardless of insurance, tax, or NCT status of the other car. I use my third party extension for a couple of reasons, and most times the cars wouldnt have active insurance policies. Spouse is the only one that is not covered for me. It all depends on your policy document.

    Confirmations on the phone are worth the paper they are written on, in times of an accident or checkpoint you're covered as per your policy documentation not a random phonecall. I've been covered in an at fault accident under third party extension. The car didnt have an insurance disc in the window and I was not even asked about it once I provided my cert showing I was insured to drive the car. You are however correct, non display of insurance disc is a traffic infraction punishable by 80 euro fine and no points. I've never been done for it, despite being through multiple checkpoints on third party cars (including one that didnt even have a disc holder, let alone a disc, in the window). You are always - although it is not mandatory - given 10 days to produce. I generally have my policy on my phone to show them at the checkpoint though so maybe that's why?

    I agree with you about the severity of driving uninsured and I have never and would never drive uninsured. I used to drive untaxed cars, run cars on agri or kero etc but I always always had insurance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'd like to point out most of the insurers will have emailed you the insurance documents and the search function in Gmail is pretty good now

    It's really not much effort to get the correct details 😉

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,049 ✭✭✭CoBo55




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Then an ID4 is definitely not for you @CoBo55



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The recently signed Road Traffic and Roads Bill puts the MIBI maintained Irish Motor Insurance Database on a statutory basis, data from it is shared with the Garda to be used in their ANPR systems and the lookup system that's available to them. The Garda aren't using the policy number that was entered at the time motor tax was renewed to link a vehicle reg to a policy.

    The IMID also contains the National Fleet Database which will be used to link vehicles, drivers, and policy for group policies such as those used in the motor trade.

    I can imagine individual policies with a driving other car extension have been a missed as a use case so may end up being flagged as uninsured vehicles on the system unless the vehicle has it's own policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    So that's an interesting angle alright.

    I am assuming it's pretty common that when you upgrade/change your car you may not always want to dispose of the old one for whatever reason. So you move it to someone else's name, keep it taxed, and then use it occasionally using your own 3rd party extension. I can't see anything in any policy documentation that invalidates that - even in the small print.

    Secondly, working within the spirit of the "disc in the window" principle, as you're using your 3rd party extension from another main policy would you not just put that in the window to be legit? As the policy number that covers use of the car is surely the important piece of information?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭wassie


    The 3 disc system is archaic in 2023. The need for a physical disc is completely redundant after Garda finally decided a few years back to join the 21st centrury adopting of ANPR technology that makes use of the unqiue identification number in the registration plate.

    Also not exactly sustainable to be producing these things, along with the cost associated with making and distributing them. I had a relative visit from Aus last year find our 3 discs a complete laugh and said their state govt did away with their annual registration stickers in 2005!



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    No, as the disc specifies cover with a different registration plate. The disc indicates that that other car is covered, not the one you are driving on your extension. It's a distinction, because the main car is insured but you as a person are insured to drive another car. Personally I think we should move to an Insure the person as opposed to Insure the car MO.

    I currently own 4 cars but on paper I own 1. Most are not on the road though as they are projects. Back when I drove regularly my "other cars" I had them insured and in my name under classic insurance but I'm not paying for a policy for a year when it may only be one or two drives a year to keep everything fresh or to go to the NCT or mechanic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    So how does one use 3rd party extension to drive a car that does not have its own active policy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭paxreseuropa


    Out of interest does any one have the figures available for the average distance an EV does in Ireland and how much kWh of energy it would consume per annum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,538 ✭✭✭eagerv


    I don't know of any figures available, but presume distance travelled would be similar to diesel/petrol. Perhaps higher due to many buying an EV to commute longer distances?

    Say 15K kms per year(I think it's a little less) x 170Wh/km = 2550kWh per year.

    Just a guess, many will be less than 170Wh per km, but above probably close enough taking in a bit of charging loss.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'd say you're pretty close to the money, but given there's so many thirsty electric CUVs, a figure closer to 19kWh/100km would be closer IMO

    So that gives 2,850kWh per year

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,538 ✭✭✭eagerv


    Was just checking my Tesla app to see rough Kwh used for last 12 months. I did a bit less than my normal mileage.

    17K kms. 2271kWh. Total Cost €290. 84% Home, 9% Supercharger, 7% Other.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I've only started tracking month by month consumption from the charger recently, so pop back next June and I'll have detailed data to show you 😁

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Listening to this lad complain away about eCVT gearboxes makes me glad I bought a BEV with exactly one gear 😂

    It's almost as if those ICE cars have become more fragile because they're constantly higher strung to meet emissions standards....

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,538 ✭✭✭eagerv


    My figures above are if anything a bit on the high side price wise. Most of my solar charging is included at my night rate electricity price of 8c/kWh. About a month ago I changed the costings on app so that any day time home charging is at zero cost, the only time we ever charge during the day is on solar.

    I was surprised my last 12 months mileage was lower than normal, previous number of years was around 18-20k kms. But I was away for about 2 months..☺️



  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭paxreseuropa


    Ah cheers for this info its helpful, much appreciated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭sonyvision


    Took a leaf 40k 192 model to my parents, 165km door to door all N and Motorway so average speed was around 105kph untill I got 50km from home and saw the range has been hammered to 70km remaining dropped the speed to 90kph and arrived with 25km or 10% remaining at the house. 100% fully charged but the headwind killed the range but I do wonder did I really have 25km range at the speed or would it fall away quicker.

    Anyway on granny charge now for the return trip tomorrow, hopefully no headwind as the wife is driving and will be stuck to 120kph 🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    You could probably check it out with abetterrouteplanner and see what the estimated arrival percentage would be. Easy enough to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Looks like Christmas came early in Lower Saxony 😁

    First of three plants across Europe and Canada which will produce enough cells for two million cars annually by 2027. Interestingly they said they would produce 200GWh so some quick math tells me that's 100kWh per car

    That's....quite a lot considering that's currently the capacity of the largest and most expensive VW ID cars

    So it's possible they could make a lot more cars if the ID.2 does well

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,049 ✭✭✭CoBo55




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Saw an ad today for this on rte

    the range quote of “up to 1,100km” caught my eye - does any other “hybrid” manufacturer quote range ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    WTF is a "full hybrid"? Sounds like they're making the marketing material sound as close as possible to a "full electric" EV

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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