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Cyclists' responsibility for their own safety *warning* infractions given liberally for trolling etc

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,474 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    I do cycle, and run lights whenever I am on the bike (day or night), except for when racing.

    However, whatever the contributory factor of the person being hit after lighting up time, the person driving knew that he had had hit something/ someone and didn't stop. For me, this is the far bigger crime and I don't see anything the person on the bike did or didn't do in anyway mitigates that. What the cyclist did or didn't do also doesn't mitigate the roadworthiness and legality of the car the person was driving.

    On the wider point, it could've been someone walking the hard shoulder, with no legal requirement to do anything but walk facing the traffic (assuming there's no footpath).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Funny that you'll still consider jumping on pretty much any thread I'm contributing to with some throw away comment about me being a cyclist hater, when you have no idea about me at all. But still in future I'll try to ignore you if you'll do me the same favour



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,833 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Your cyclist hating posts speak for yourself Spook. You've been at the negativity for years.

    Ignore me all you like, but I'll keep pulling you up & educating you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    If only you were educating me instead of just being an interruption to a discussion.

    BTW When did you give up the cycling?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,833 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Look at you pulling up stats, researching daylight hours, looking up the weather to see if it was dull, going to every effort to apply blame to the man that was tragically killed by a scumbag just because he was a cyclist. You should stop doing this, it's not a good luck, your efforts would be better used in a helpful way.

    I gave up commuting when I changed working conditions before covid. But being an ex commuter cyclists gives me a much broader perspective as a road user. I'm much more aware than you are and have much more consideration towards other road users.

    I still use the bike for various stuff, bakery, butcher, shops, short runs etc...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Yes I do my research when people post non researched things.

    Was it bright and he would be easily visible, maybe but the weather conditions were (according to research ) overcast and it was after lighting up time.

    If it wasn't some Lithuanian scumbag driving but a fairly respectable business man would we be having this discussion at all, if someone posted that it was "probably" bright at that time then yes I would still be posting the research.

    The truth matters even if it's not a welcome truth



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Can't say you're not a cyclist if you keep re-cycling the same dogma every other thread. Must be taxing...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Anyway you'd have to say it's thrown the failure of enforcement of all road users into the spotlight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,833 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I have no doubt you do your research, you'd go to the ends of the earth to apportion blame to the victim.

    Nice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Not sure if that's aimed at me or not because I never say I'm not a cyclist.

    If it is what's the relevance to the discussion about lack of enforcement?




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Reports mention other drivers seeing and avoiding the cyclist. Described as near misses or such. That it was 100 limit was also mentioned.

    Which suggest to me there was a multitude of factors at play. Cyclists requiring lights is a requirement for a reason. Good reason.

    Even with lights cyclists would do well not to assume they can be seen. As someone else suggested, assume the worst.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    No reason to reply to it if you don't identify with it.

    The primary issue is the lack of enforcement. The driver would not have been allowed through a check point. The cyclist would not have ignored the rules about lights .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    If anyone is trying to apportion blame in any direction then it's yourself.

    I reply to someone who said it would've still been bright at 10.15pm with the record that says it was more likely to have been overcast and that would make a cyclist without lights more difficult to see ( unless you have Rambo superpower and can see everything at all times ) that's not apportioning blame that's citing records to allow people to make their own minds up as to if it was bright or not.


    EDIT

    BTW still waiting for you to actually educate me about something in this thread ( or any thread to that matter )



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,474 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Those factors may mitigate the hitting of the person on a bike. They do not mitigate the leaving the scene. They do not mitigate having an unroadworthy vehicle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    If you read my first post about this I do say that the levels of punishment handed out were/are a "slap on the wrist"



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This really is an over-simplification.

    It is quite possible to have perfect vision, and to not see a cyclist (or a motorcyclist, or a PPT user) who is fully dressed in dark clothes, after dark. Or not see them until the very last minute.

    To argue otherwise, is ridiculous.

    I literally cannot understand the stubborn nature of cyclists in particular, who declare that they are perfectly visible after dark in all situations, and refuse to wear high viz. Fair enough. Don't wear it. But it's your own life you're putting at greater risk, with this attitude. On your own head be it.

    I won't even let my cats out without high viz collars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,474 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Reflective detail is pretty much standard on cycling gear. But lights, as per the legal requirement*, are better than a builders vest. The discourse is skewed that too many utility cyclists see the builders vest as the requirement over lights.

    *only to say that most LED bike lights don't meet the lens size minimum requirements(?!) of the 1963 Act! We unfortunately don't have a defined standard, unlike Germany.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Lights are vastly superior to Hi Viz. Hence they are the legal requirement and not Hi Viz.

    Can't understand people who can't grasp such a simple thing.

    As MAcy says its derailing the conversation to be about Hi Viz when it should be about lights. So well done those that do it, your spreading bad information.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Need a video of cat cycling in Hi Viz or it didn't happen.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I just can't understand why someone wouldn't take every precaution they can to make themselves as visible as possible, including lights and high viz - it just makes no sense to me.

    It shouldn't have to be a legal requirement, it should just be common sense.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Need pictures of your car with upgraded lights and hi viz.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,039 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    we should ban black cars so? the gardai make every precaution to make their cars as visible as possible, so all motorists should.

    as per other comments above - when cycling in the dark, i have two lights in front and two lights at the back. i have an unscientific opinion that making your shoes more visible is much better than wearing a hi-vis jacket. for two reasons, your feet move in relation to the bike and have a biomechanical motion that is more visible. secondly, they're more likely to be caught by dipped beams, which are a hell of a lot brighter below waist level.

    i do also wear jackets that can be described as hi-vis in some way, but that's more to prevent a 'he's responsible for his own misfortune' accusations than any belief in their efficacy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Goths banned from going out at night.,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,213 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Up until now, like you, I have always seen them. But that is as much luck as anything else.

    A small distraction, e.g. another cyclist in dark clothing, a truck with bright lights, etc. and I might miss the next cyclist.

    We all see the cyclists until we don't. Lights on the bike, full reflective clothing, then I definitely will see them.

    As a pedestrian, who has had more problems with cyclists than cars in the last few years, the wearing of reflective clothing in the evening is something I do all the time. Just yesterday, while walking a dog in a shared space with cyclists, I was nearly knocked down twice, first by a cyclist on an electric-assisted bike, then by a scooter. Neither used a bell, neither slowed down to take care of a pedestrian, neither was wearing reflective clothing.

    We all have our part to play, motorists, cyclists and pedestrians alike. In the particular case of the OP, both the driver and the cyclists were engaged in unacceptable behaviour. Neither should be defended.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The question is did you AND the dog have hi viz AND lights on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,436 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    to be fair, you could say the same thing about pedestrians, they seem to be hit regularly by motorists on both the roads and footpaths, but even with the risks people just can't be arsed. I've never worn high vis and probably never will as I have only really cycled in urban areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,204 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Car colour is actually an interesting one, you're statistically more probable to be in an accident in a black car over a white one. Makes sense really.

    I commute cycle every day myself and have noticed that on some particularly grey, rainy days, some matt grey / silver type cars which seem quite in at the moment do go stealth mode a little bit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,213 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Hi-viz and lights are difficult for dogs, they don't like them, they are unnatural, forcing them to wear them can be considered as animal cruelty. However, in winter, yes, the dog has hi-viz and lights as the risks outweigh the discomfort. So, no to yesterday. All my own jackets have hi-viz elements but I don't wear a light even if the cyclists might expect me to.

    Petshop have plenty of hi-viz for dogs so no excuse for dark winter nights. In summer, the temperatures make some of these oppressive for dogs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That could simply because there are more black cars.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,474 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Thread successfully derailed... but if someone driving doesn't see me with my german standard front and rear light, plus my garmin varia radar rear light, I really don't see a builders vest making much difference. The biggest cloak of invisibility is the phone in the drivers eyeline distracting them, not what people outside the car are wearing.



This discussion has been closed.
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