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Cyclists' responsibility for their own safety *warning* infractions given liberally for trolling etc

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    The principle still holds and avoids the litany of comments about HiViz for pedestrians as well. Though I have no objection to legislation that would add HiViz panels to runners and shoes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Whilst i agree with you that it's a good idea to make yourself as visible as possible it's a moot point in relation to this case. At what point do you think the victim should have been noticed? Before he was hit, during, or afterwards? Cos it would seem he never was, do you not find it weird that the driver's statement about the incident was omitted from the coroner? Who would that have benefitted, the driver or the guards handling the case? Certainly not the victim.

    There was an incident last year where a driver arrived home with a guard's leg stuck in her grill, in broad daylight. How much hi-viz do you think he should have been wearing to avoid being hit?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The 70s clothing in that ad is useless at night. That you think it has any value says it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 87,288 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Sorry but in the absence of HiViz en401 a light colored headscarf or a light colored macintosh would be an acceptable substitute for pedestrians.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    A 1watt cree led is cheap and unmissable at night.

    That's the mindset missing from these threads. Knit him a yellow jumper he'll be grand. Real archaic mindset.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭the.red.baron


    There is extra lighting in the picture, the one on the bike

    It's lighting up the fork etc on the front

    The rest is very close, the face, clothes etc road



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Fixated hard on clothing beats a light. Good luck with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That the family's argument. Hard not to agree with them. Cyclist should have had lights also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    But one would still be more easily visible than the other.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    No fixated that in the absence of EN401 then anything is better than disguising yourself as a ninja

    Speaking of which, is there some kind of urban street code that says EScooter riders dress all in black and wear balacavas especially around the inner city areas?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    AGS would probably never have came accross the cyclist without lights if they had impounded the car.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I made no reference to the case in the OP, as I am not familiar enough with it.

    As for your remark about the other incident, I never claimed high viz is the be all and end all that would prevent all accidents.

    But catching a glimpse of it in the dark might be the factor that tips the balance between a collision happening or being avoided. A second or two, in which a life is either saved, or ended.

    For that purpose, I believe it has value, and I can't actually believe there are people here arguing against it's use.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    I did (thought I did ) post an amendment to this about purely flourescent clothing. Can't see it now so I'll post it again

    Though the better description would probably be Black Light Party wear rather than cyclewear




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Then why post in a thread that is specifically about the case unless you have a blind agenda?

    There are plenty of links posted, why wouldn't you read them?



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I didn't read the links because I didn't have time today, and the thread had already moved on from discussing a single case (as threads do) by the time I joined it.

    Sorry. No agenda, unless common sense is an agenda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Fortunately i have a good memory, you were the first person to reply here suggesting the thread be moved to the cycling forum so the usual suspects could wax lyrical, and they do!

    I agree with you about the visibility, but i'm also going to call you out on your blind animosity towards cyclists. If you tried it, you would understand the vulnerability that is felt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    So you see loads of ninjas that you can't see... Make sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Being obsessed about the least effective means of being seen....is the opposite of common sense.

    Tbh Common sense is often just old wives tales which have been disproved by research and studies. But people just can't let go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    How do you think cyclists make pedestrians feel?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    What have pedestrians got to with this incident?



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not that good a memory. Wrong thread.

    But now that you bring it up, yes this probably should be on the cycling forum as well as it has nothing to do with commuting or transport.

    Strange you consider my thinking that cyclists should do all they can to be as visible as possible on the road, so as not to see them dead under the wheels of a car as "blind animosity" towards them. But I'm not responsible for how your mind works, or how you choose to interpret my posts. I don't want to see anyone die on the road. I've had the experience of identifying the victim of a road traffic accident in a morgue.

    And like I said, I drove a motorbike for years, so am not that unfamiliar with two wheels.

    If anyone thinks putting on a high viz belt or vest is inconvenient, try bike leathers.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,039 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    you ask if there is evidence about bright cars and accidents; but it's not me making that claim, per se. what i was trying to call out was the hypocrisy of some of the people here who insist on the importance of cyclists dressing brightly, but react with eye-rolling scorn when someone asks 'if that is the case for cyclists, then is it not also the case for cars?'

    i have a number of unscientific opinions on lights, and since you didn't ask, here are some:

    i use two lights; one steady and one flashing, on both front and rear. for several reasons. one obvious one is redundancy; but the reason i have one steady and one flashing is that i once read somewhere that a steady light is easier for road users to judge distance with; but a flashing light will more easily grab their attention. worst case scenario for visibility is a dark wet night, often when approaching cars from behind (as i often found myself undertaking heavy traffic on the left). a steady light could easily be lost in wing mirror spattered with rain (compared to an oncoming cyclist, more likely to be seen through a windscreen with wipers running, visible in the car headlamps). in the side mirror scenario, there could be multiple points of light (e.g. house lights or streetlights) bouncing off multiple drops of water on the wing mirror; but a flashing light would be far less easily lost or misread in that context. and a hi-vis is often of little use if you're worried about someone getting impatient and swinging their car across your path, without indicating.

    however, the biggest issue for most cyclists here (and the fact that most of the self-declared cyclists here would often firmly count themselves as cyclists means we're not exactly a clean slice through the demographic) is simply (some!) motorists not looking. i have on two occasions, managed to cycle up to the side of a car pulling out on a side street, and the first the motorist knew of my presence was me knocking on their window. and on one of those occasions, it was the first time i'd tried out hi-vis leggings which made me look like a clown.

    also; as there has been multiple mentions of the cycling forum, it's worth pointing out that cycling without lights at night there is *not* something which is popular on the forum. there have been plenty of threads about people asking about effective lights, and plenty of willing and helpful opinions regarding longevity brightness, and general use. lights are taken seriously there.


    finally:




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,730 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    High vis x2 = 16 euros

    Usb rechargeable light sets x 2 = 50 euros incl. delivery.

    66 euros investment, yet scores of cyclists don’t bother..

    a significant proportion of cyclists far greater then motorists, I observe breaking red lights and are guilty of breaking other elements of the road traffic act…

    So when any cyclist attempts to lecture myself or any motorist about road safety i simply ignore…

    road safety is a culture and if you are not playing your small part in enabling that culture as a cyclist , you can’t lecture motorists 🤷‍♂️

    66 euros and you are sorted….



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,039 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    also, it's just an anecdote, but it's a funny one. a chap i know, a garda, went out for a spin, about five or six years ago. his wife thought he looked so stupid she made him pose for a photo before he left the house; he was wearing a hi-vis jacket, a hi vis helmet, hi vis gloves , hi vis leggings and hi vis overshoes.

    he didn't even make it 2km from the house; he was knocked down on a roundabout. by a motorist who didn't see him.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    his wife thought he looked so stupid


    I'd tried out hi-vis leggings which made me look like a clown.

    I suspect this has more to do with some people refusing to wear high viz, than they would ever be willing to admit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    A pilot project that saw detection cameras installed at a dangerous Dublin junction has revealed motorists broke the lights more than twice as often as cyclists.

    In the accident that this thread is about, I'm not sure how you think this driver can take the high moral ground.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭micar


    Exactly...people think that high viz and lights will protect cyclists.....it sadly isn't the case.

    The guy was killed on the N2 near carrickmacross.

    I've driven that road plenty of times......it isn't some windy country road.

    You can clearly and easily see a km ahead

    Driver behaviour is atrocious....speed and dangerous over taking.

    It's one road I'd never cycle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Apologies, you're right wrong thread.

    But the point about your consistency in being anti cyclist is therefore proven in that you feel that cycling doesn't belong in a commuting and transport forum, that is just weird.

    My issue is that you want to side with the lack of visibility of cyclists regardless of the facts of any individual case, which also seems to be the approach of the judicial system.

    I wonder if the driver's statement was provided to the judge who was appointed to the review of this case before he advised there was no need for a public inquiry. There are too many unanswered questions here for me to feel comfortable about this finding.

    Perhaps if you took the time to read about it you might feel the same rather than pontificating about generalisations.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 159 ✭✭Silent Shrill




This discussion has been closed.
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