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rsa supporting e-scooters

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    #1052
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,397 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i welcome the day when every near miss in the UK is reported on by the daily mail.



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    #1053
    ExoPolitic
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭ExoPolitic


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120733989#Comment_120733989

    What they say and what they do are two completely different things.



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    #1054
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,635 ✭✭✭Paddigol



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120735542#Comment_120735542

    Ok fine, we'll have to agree to completely disagree. I don't think there's any meaningful equivalence between an eScooter and a car, and I don't see why the need to tackle motor vehicle road safety should have any relevance to the need to put in place safety standards for newer forms of transport (which we should be encouraging) on our roads. It's not a case of one or the other.

    I'll leave it there.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745226#Comment_120745226

    Undoubtedly. But there are surely far more near-accidents involving cars and pedestrians happening all over the country too. The media just know that mentioning eScooters in a headline will guarantee clicks.



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    #1055
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,686 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120750313#Comment_120750313

    Pedestrians don't come towards other road users at anything from 20 to 60+ kph whereas eScotter riders do..

    As someone made a snarky comment about the DM, well if you have a look around YouTube there's plenty of Dashcam videos showing near misses or worse with eScooter riders...

    Post edited by Tenzor07 on


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    #1056
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    So if an e scooter rider hits and injures a pedestrian who is liable for the damages?



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    #1057
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752541#Comment_120752541

    You've been here long enough to know the answer to that so you may as well spit out the actual point you are hoping to make!



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    #1058
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,387 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Since we don't have presumed liability regarding a hierarchy of responsibility, it'll go to court for decision, same as every other claim? Given the number of times someone walking has stepped in front of me on a bike on the road, I don't make assumptions on fault tbh.



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    #1059
    LeeroyJ.
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭LeeroyJ.


    So many commenters in here are just saying "I don't want to share the road, it belongs to me and my car" in a thousand different words. I'd appreciate if the mods could do some moderating and focus on the legislation instead of entitled drivers voicing their displeasure with anything that might make them slow down.



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    #1060
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,397 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    mod note; thank you for your input but this is a discussion forum and people are discussing the topic at hand and have remained reasonably polite about it. if you are seeing opinions you don't like, it doesn't mean those posts are actionable.



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    #1061
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,635 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120750524#Comment_120750524

    I don't get the point you're making? What relevance does the fact that pedestrians don't move at 20 - 60 kmph have to the fact that every day there are countless incidents of close calls between them and cars? Just look at the number of pedestrian fatalities this year alone. I was simply pointing out the fact that there are probably thousands of 'close calls' on our roads every day. None of which make the news. Unless, it seems, it involves an eScooter. The implication in the article, of course, being that this is somehow endemic to eScooters above all other forms of transport on the road, when it's not.


    So much scaremongering and 'reds under the bed' style rabble rousing going on around the use of eScooters.



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    #1062
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,686 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120753580#Comment_120753580

    Because it's the topic at hand, and they make the news cos it's relatively new, there's increasing numbers of illegal powered scooters on the roads... even myself have come across kids flying around corners on them..



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    #1063
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,387 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Sorry, but I'd disagree that's specifically scooter related tbh. Not to re-open the "are they healthy" argument, it wouldn't been said about children and teens flying around on push bikes.



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    #1064
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752562#Comment_120752562

    If I knew I wouldn't ask. Genuinely.


    p.s. That 80 something year old lady who was hit by an e scooter has sadly died it seems. This is a serious issue.



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    #1065
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,397 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i think the short answer (without meaning to sound trivial about it; because this response is so often repeated) is simply policing the use of the things. if you're caught using one on the footpath, you should get a fine. and gardai currently have the power to seize a bicycle if they're not satisfied that a cyclist they've stopped is not giving correct ID; i suspect it'd be the same for e-scooters?



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    #1066
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,984 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752541#Comment_120752541

    Currently the unlicenced uninsured person on the escooter, which can have serious consequences as uninsured driving can result in 5 points and a fine.

    When they are legal the person on the escooter as they hit the pedestrian.

    If a pedestrian hits a escooter rider they would be liable.



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    #1067
    inigo
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭inigo


    It seems the Bill has been signed by Michael D. today and is now law.

    https://president.ie/en/media-library/news-releases/president-higgins-signs-the-road-traffic-and-roads-bill-2021

    Does that mean we will be riding our e-scooters legally from now on (provided they "comply with the requirements")??

    Post edited by inigo on


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    #1068
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120756363#Comment_120756363

    Makes no sense.

    These yokes are uninsurable. How can you apply 5 points to a license that doesn't exist?



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    #1069
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120756380#Comment_120756380

    So will members of AGS be made aware of the law and start actually policing it? I have my doubts!



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    #1070
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,397 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120756844#Comment_120756844

    there were two cases in front of a judge in balbriggan on the same day a few months ago - a chap on an escooter, stopped by gardai for not having insurance, and a chap driving a merc on the M1 at 150km/h, who was i think twice the legal limit and had an open can of beer in the car.

    the guy on the escooter got more penalty points; four vs three for the drunk driver (but a lower financial penalty; €350 vs €750)



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    #1071
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,984 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120756844#Comment_120756844

    They are uninsurable because they are currently illegal motor vehicles.

    The same way the apply 5 points to people who don't have an Irish licence. They create a virtual licence and the points are added to that, as the points aren't applied to a licence they remain on record till the person gets a licence.



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    #1072
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,975 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120757740#Comment_120757740

    I thought the position at the moment was they were legal as long as they were taxed and insured like a moped?



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    #1073
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,397 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    In theory. Try getting one taxed or insured though!



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    #1074
    LeeroyJ.
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭LeeroyJ.


    https://www.fm104.ie/news/fm104-news/legislation-on-e-scooters-signed-into-law/



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    #1075
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769090#Comment_120769090

    Nobody else reporting that. Finding it impossible to confirm too.



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    #1076
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,397 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Some analysis here

    https://irishcycle.com/2023/06/26/electric-bikes-with-motors-which-exceed-25km-h-or-250w-must-be-registered-as-e-mopeds-in-2024/




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    #1077
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,648 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    ..



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    #1078
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,635 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    It seems there's no middle ground. Cyclists (eScooters users don't seem to be bothered by negative press) won't acknowledge issues around use of eScooters and eBikes until something is done about about the dangers posed by cars. And non-cyclists are only interested in engaging with salacious and hysterical reports about use of eScooters. Its the classic polarisation impediment to discussion.

    As someone who doesn't own one or intend to buy one, I'm not interested enough to start a separate thread so I'll formally retire from this one 😂



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    #1079
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,387 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    I wouldn't really classify it as that. Most people couldn't give a toss either way, but of those that comment it seems to be a cohort of people who drive wanting extra laws and regulations, as against those that just say enforce the law before introducing extra regulations.



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    #1080
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772595#Comment_120772595

    It's not so much, do nothing because cars are bad but more that, in the grand scheme of things, do something but don't make it a priority because the number of deaths and injuries that are known about appear small so far, so at least stop the hysteria in the papers and the demonising of a group who are, in the majority, just getting in and out to work reasonably practically and safely. I have seen a nasty accident on an escooter where a young one hopped up on their boyfriends scooter to try, and immediately faceplanted and took a chunk out of their face. I have seen a fixed gear rider lose the top of their finger, I have more scars on me than I care to admit from bike riding and know several people dead or injured from car accidents. If I went by anecdotal evidence, no one would be allowed ride a bike, scooter or drive a car ever again. Testing clearly doesn't work as proven by the car stats. The truth is though, that is just hysteria and in the broader scheme of things, when rules are followed for cars, they are typically safe, so therefore that can be fixed with enforcement. For cyclists and scooters, so far, there are rules for one and a concept of what the rules will be for the other, threat of enforcement is more important than diverting resources to absolute enforcement. As a Garda I used to live with once said, I don't pull over cyclists running reds because they run reds, I pull them over because if they run a red in front of me while in uniform, then they are not paying enough attention to do it safely. He also fully admitted that it rarely happened in front of him, which he felt validated his view on it.



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    #1081
    zell12
    Registered Users Posts: 24,742 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Thanks Peter, call again

    image.png




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