Tension over future of Rosslare-Waterford rail route

Yellow_Fern · 21-06-2023 2:34pm

Of course freight is not viable in many cases but you are wrong that is always unviable. Just this month a medical device manufacture launched a freight transport programme from Ballina to Waterford port.

You also claim Tipperary, Carrick On Suit, Cahir are all holes with no reason to travel there. That is such untruths. I know Carrick On Suit, and Cahir very well and they have major tourist attractions. Five films have used Cahir Castle as a set. Ormond castle is also very significant. There is nothing like it anywhere else in Ireland.

Beta Ray Bill · 21-06-2023 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744250#Comment_120744250

And a train is the most inflexible form of PT available.

Sorry but you are 100% wrong here.

Give me just one shining example of (Anywhere in the world) of Road based public transport that trumps the likes of S-Bahn, U-Bahn, London Tubes, Shinkansen, TGV, ICE, etc.

There is no Bus Service in Dublin even that's better than the DART (Maybe the Swords Express), and many of those Units are 40 years old.

I understand though that Ireland's implementation of Rail is P*ss poor. We needed HSR for passengers years ago and Freight should have been expanded long ago but some A$$hole in government decided Buses and Cars were the future. Ripped up all the rail and tram lines, that's how were in the situation we have now.

Beta Ray Bill · 21-06-2023 3:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744275#Comment_120744275

There's work going on somewhere on it nearly every night of the week, mostly resurfacing.

You can follow them on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/M50Dublin

or you can look at the https://www.m50concession.com/planned-road-works/

the.red.baron · 21-06-2023 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744739#Comment_120744739

you could count on one hand the numbers of people who would travel from limerick to rosslare per day by train if it was open

the numbers who use the limerick to waterford train is shocking low until you realise its much better to drive or even bus it

the.red.baron · 21-06-2023 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745104#Comment_120745104

so how often is it resurfaced?

every 5 years 10 years?

Yellow_Fern · 21-06-2023 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745127#Comment_120745127

Of course driving is better. Driving is nearly always better than rail or bus. Even in Dublin, if you happen to live on a DART line, and want to go to a DART stop eg. Blackrock to Howth, it is faster to drive. This is always the way outside highly congested areas or certain high speed rail. So youre entire premise is bogus.

The M50 is continually being resurfaced.

the.red.baron · 21-06-2023 3:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745254#Comment_120745254

How often in its whole is it resurfaced is the question, hard to answer it seems, going by general motorways 5-10 years doesn't seem far out

Those areas are congested so I'm not sure what your point is, for large parts of the day in dublin, public transport is a better option, as in bus lane or train

buses stuck in with traffic are a disaster

on any day the dart would give you a car a run for its money, its only of use to people who live within walking distance

waterford to rosslare isn't congested, so bus or car is perfect, which is why no one took the train

Yellow_Fern · 21-06-2023 3:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745307#Comment_120745307

No, that just isnt true at all. In nearly no case in Dublin is public transport faster than car. Only in very rare cases with heavy rail. Public transport has many advantages but speed isnt one of them. Outside of cities, it is far more stark. By your logical all intercity rail would be closed.

the.red.baron · 21-06-2023 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745318#Comment_120745318

nope, just intertown trains, buses for the spokes, flexible and chape, trains for the proper cities

any case where there is a bus lane the bus would win, the luas would beat a car to stephens green, have you taken a bus at all? driving is a nightmare, 98% of bus journeys go to the city center, have you been on the quays?

where the bus is mixed with traffic, well its a sh1t show of course

you might win in the car at say 3am

Beta Ray Bill · 21-06-2023 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745151#Comment_120745151

They do it in pieces. They start at one end and keep going each night until they reach the end and then start again. If I had to hazard a guess of how often. I would guess between Santry and Dundrum, there isn't a piece of tar down that's over 2 years old.

I've had many a late night drive on the M50, there is nearly always resurfacing work going on.

the.red.baron · 21-06-2023 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745437#Comment_120745437

5-10 years seems like a reasonable guess going by the uk

they do it lane by lane

I've been caught in it a few times, I presume its limited to the good weather

Yellow_Fern · 21-06-2023 4:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745340#Comment_120745340

A Luas would beat a car to St Stephens Green? I don't think so. At this time, rush hour on a weekday, I am still getting a faster result with a car than a Luas on Google Maps and that assumes one starts on a Luas stop. I comute daily in Dublin. I use buses and Luas. Even where there is a bus lane, cars are faster. I used Blackrock to Howth as an extreme example as it is Dart stop to Dart stop and you still are not seeing Dart strongly win.

the.red.baron · 21-06-2023 4:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745487#Comment_120745487

its saying it would take 25 minutes currently luas is 22 mins, sandyford to stephens green

leave in an hours youd be doing well to to do it in an hour and the luas is still 22 mins

lucan to o'connell is currently 42 mins for bus 51 for car, thats inbound, reverse it its worse

when you chose other depart times you get unreliable guestimate numbers

be worse at 5:30

I think google maps gives total journey times so you have to wait for a bus or dart

the dart is of course rubbish, its a train

anyway, this is a bit pointless

Yellow_Fern · 21-06-2023 5:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745558#Comment_120745558

Depending in the time of day, Sandyford to St Stephens Green can take 30 mins in car. It can also take 30 mins in Luas.

the.red.baron · 21-06-2023 5:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745704#Comment_120745704

took about 22 mins when I went off peak similar on peak

in general youd want to be after 8pm and before 8pm to car it that fast

motorbike maybe, cycle maybe, youd want to average 30kph that is very hard to do in the car in dublin

and this route is against rush hour traffic

friendlyfun · 21-06-2023 5:54pm

Carrick on Suir is a serious kip

Economics101 · 21-06-2023 6:16pm

I thought I might find a discussion on Waterford-Rosslare railway here, but the thread seems to have drifted into outer space.

hardybuck · 21-06-2023 11:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745487#Comment_120745487

Can confirm it's around twice as quick to travel on the Luas on that route for a lot of the day. Sometimes around peak times it's around three times quicker, and rarely would it be slower.

Plus you can walk off to your destination as opposed to trying to find parking.

Bus is a disaster in comparison to Luas and Dart.

This revived Rosslare to Waterford route will take cars off the roads leading into Waterford and help breathe life into parts of south Wexford.

Hopefully they organise trains at appropriate times of day and link up transport links to the college and Ardkeen.

JMcL · 22-06-2023 11:59am

To relocate the discussion to what the title suggests, in the case of the Rosslare-Waterford line, absolutely it should be reinstated since it should still be reasonably serviceable. While I hear all that's being said about Rosslare-Limerick, but I'd wonder how much freight coming into Rosslare actually goes to Limerick, or even Cork for that matter - I'd think much of it goes to the Dublin region for distribution. The primary value of reopening the line would be a more light rail focused commuter service facilitating people living in south Wexford getting to Waterford. A colleague living not far from Wellingtonbridge has a 45 minute commute even taking into account the New Ross bypass. With a train connection he'd probably throw the bike onto the train and take that - probably wouldn't be much shorter, but he'd have had a bit of fresh air. What is crucial though is that it would be run properly, i.e., a regular service that gets people where they need to be, when they need to be, so proper services for morning/evening rush hours, several during the day. Not the nonsense that IE were practising in the runup to justifying closure of the line

As for the greenways and the sniping at the "cycling lobby", whoever they are, from some commentors, these are highly desirable revenue drivers for local authorities - just look at the Kilmacthomas. Putting them on disused railway lines makes absolute sense - trains don't like hills so they tend to take the flat option. They're also in public ownership - at least in theory. While South Wexford isn't in fairness the lumpiest part of the country, it does have its moments. Leisure cyclist just out for a spin with their kids or who only get the bike out a handful of times per year don't want to face into a series of 10% gradients with impatient motorists on their back wheel and close passing. There's a major European cycling trail (EV1) which runs all along the western and southern coast which is a major tourism driver elsewhere where it's more developed, and Wexford CoCo quite rightly want to exploit this.

As I said at the outset, it makes perfect sense to reinstate this line as you'd hope it hasn't deteriorated badly. Waterford-New Ross, and Waterford-Dungarvan would always have been very expensive to reinstate though, and are delivering/will deliver huge tourist benefits

CramCycle · 25-06-2023 11:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120748467#Comment_120748467

As a local I would love it and definitely use the service. I was also wrong about the state of the line as they were using it the other day for some reason. This said they were only tipping along at 60kmph. I didn't ask the driver to much about it but other than the stations that look like a post apocalyptic movie set, it is functional.

Realistically though, unless TFI take over the timetabling, it will fail. They wanted it shut down before and gave an unusable service. Regular trains on the hour at peak times in both directions with a cross over at Wellington Bridge would be ideal. Start at 6am and finish at 8pm. Freight through the night from the ferry although that needs a lot of work since someone in Irish Rail took a nice payment to move the line for "security" reasons many years ago.

For me to go to Waterford, it's a car at the minute as by the time I drive to a bus stop, I'd be better just keep going. If the train ran, I'd just use the bike like I do on the Rosslare line for work at the minute.

fuzzy dunlop · 03-07-2023 12:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744781#Comment_120744781

Trains are easily viable! The mindset that "cars win handsdown" is frankly a backwards one that belongs in 50s America.And that is all you need to know about Wexfords obsession with ripping up the rosslare to Waterford line to provide tourism infrastructure for a handful of B&B owners.; Intel has plenty of rail infrastructure serving it. There would be a huge amount of more effeicient land use if the rail corridors were provided with the same level of funding as road infrastructure. Also a lot less damage to our towns and cities. The most uncivilized form of tramsport in existence has been the motor car. Its only real contribution has been urban sprawl and obesity.

fuzzy dunlop · 03-07-2023 12:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745127#Comment_120745127

That is because the line has not been invested in. Reverse the investment that has been provided for roads and you will have different results. Either way the greenway to Rosslare to Waterford will only benefit a handful of B&B's in South Wexford.

fuzzy dunlop · 03-07-2023 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745759#Comment_120745759

That's great for all of the people who start work after 8pm and finish 8pm. In other words nobody. You must be the guy that made the timetables for the Wexford-Waterford commuter service a number of years ago. For the huge market of people who start work at 1130 and knock off at 1430!

the.red.baron · 03-07-2023 7:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120798839#Comment_120798839

What point are you making

the.red.baron · 03-07-2023 7:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120798818#Comment_120798818

Simply no, the demand and population isn't there

Helping out a few bnbs is better than nothing

Wanderer78 · 04-07-2023 11:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120800904#Comment_120800904

...there are reasons why our population is currently heavily concentrated on the east coast, particularly around the dublin region, one being the serious lack of transport infrastructure around the country, this in turn puts astonishing pressure on all other major infrastructure systems, from electricity, water, telecommunications, transport, etc etc. all of this in turn causes all sorts of complex and dysfunctional social and economic outcomes, one method of trying to resolve such outcomes is to simply make it easier for goods and people to move around the country, and again, you ll find modern rail is generally what you ll find in most advanced economy's, its time for us to do this, or else.....

the.red.baron · 04-07-2023 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802881#Comment_120802881

no country is trying to join up rosslare, population about 20 with anywhere else by rail

we have as much rail as anywhere else as I stated before

then are numerous reasons why the population is concentrated around Dublin, I'm sure you can figure them out on your own

you can concentrate people so you have the numbers to provide public transport rather than do it out to back of beyond, if you want to live there, you drive

Yellow_Fern · 04-07-2023 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802959#Comment_120802959

Id question your claim that no city this size is being served by new rail, but of course everyone agrees that rural lines like Rosslare are not the greatest priority nationally but part of the reason to restore it is the sheer cheapness. Lines like the MetroLink in Dublin are so much more important but that will take ten years to build and €9 billion. While BusConnects will be about €3 billion. While the Rosslare line cost just €4 million a year to run in 2011, or perhaps about €29m to renovate. A drop in the ocean of the spend of the more needed lines.

the.red.baron · 04-07-2023 1:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803304#Comment_120803304

everything adds up

the numbers to renovate would be more than likely higher than converting it to a greenway

I'm sure wexford would benefit much more from say 200k toursists using it than say 100 people using the railway

that part of wexford is sorely in need of a tourist destination activity and extending the waterford one on is a great idea

Economics101 · 04-07-2023 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802881#Comment_120802881

Has it occurred to you that the causation might be the other way? Lots of infrastructure in the East because of high population. Lost of rail closures in less populated because of low and (historically) falling population.

Of course there were closures in the East too - e.g. Harcourt Street line - but eventually that gave an opportunity to build a very suuessful light rail line.

Tension over future of Rosslare-Waterford rail route

Comments