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  • Registered Users Posts: 35,057 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Nice idea on paper but I and most others wouldn't / couldn't work for nothing for two years, there's nothing stopping those who want to though.

    It's hard enough for young adults to establish themselves these days with degrees required for more and more jobs, and often not primary degrees either, so two years more of not earning on top of that? They'll be pushing 30 before properly entering the workforce, and any hope of an independent secure financial future seriously hit at best.

    The costs of babysitting tens of thousands of people who don't want to be there would be astronomical. It'd be like community service only 100 times worse.

    Tbh it also demeans the roles of those who actually work in those areas but they (like the military) tend to be very poorly paid anyway.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭sparky42


    There is also the issue of Ireland being Ireland, and pretty much everyone knowing someone who knows someone, how many would be dodging such service because of connections, money etc?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    All of that is why I suggested in my post, a two-year aggregate of service from age 18 to 30, that would not generally interfere with full-time work or education and where it did involve a longer term commitment, like several months of full time training in an initial stage, that that would be paid service.

    There would also be a retainer for those serving, spread out over the years of commitment.

    The dodging of national service is as old as the idea of national service itself, but it's not beyond the intelligence of appropriate people to design a regime that only allows for exemption on medical grounds. And even then, there are only a few long term medical conditions along with permanent disabilities, that would exempt a person from not being able to contribute in some fashion, to a community or a charitable effort, if not to military service.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,057 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Or, y'know, we properly resource public services instead of expecting charities and volunteers (never mind conscripts!) to pick up the slack.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    There isn't a developed Country in the World that doesn't have a culture of volunteerism and charitable activities, particularly in sectors where the State has no skills base, like maybe animal welfare or practical support for the needs of sufferers of a particular illness.

    Your implication that taxpayer funded State services can solve every problem going, is obtuse bullshite.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 35,057 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Yeah right. We have dozens of charities providing essential services to disabled people, addiction services, etc. Basically the state outsources these services and saves money by underpaying because the operators can seek donations to make up the difference. Also the staff don't get the going rate, so-called "section 39" staff don't get public sector pay rises even though ultimately the state is paying their wages.

    This was only after serious threats of strike action were made.

    Post edited by Hotblack Desiato on

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I see on Air Corps social media there is 4 irish pilots being trained at the UKs Defence Helicopter Flying School. How are they training are pilots while the uk struggles to train there own?

    Edit: Turns out very good reason there is room for us




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Well that's certainly a handy bonus for us, but christ is there any part of the pilot training system working in the UK?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    There could be a good opportunity for the air corps to book places for our crews to get trained there for the next few years. Does the course to convert to the 139 take long?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    General Aviation aircraft strayed into restricted airspace over a nuclear plant in France. The French sent a Rafale up to check it out.

    Drugs rain down on countryside after fighter jet intercepts plane (msn.com)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Id say the polish pilot had skid marks when he looked out the window and seen a Rafale next to him



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    But that sort of incident isn't allowed in Ireland so it could never happen at all.

    Absolutely no need to surveil our own airspace for incidents that won't ever happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,548 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    We've fixed that sort of incident by banning nuclear power.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Just ignore the future extension cable to France...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Notmything


    Fortunately the French have agreed to colour code the electricity we're getting so only the none nuclear variety will be allowed into Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    A neighbour once told me a nice rep from one of the green energy providers, assured her if she signed up with them, she would ONLY get electricity from renewable sources.

    Isn't technology wonderful...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Due to the SAR thread being locked ill leave this here. Well the IRCG contract looks like it might get messey yet




  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭mupper2


    I have the feeling by the end of this some in gov will be wishing they just bought SAR helos for the Air Corps...


    *Before anyone gets mad at me I have no real opinion on that either way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    It was no surprise this decision would be challenged, when certain parties in Kildare Street were openly discussing rejected offers, while the process was still live.

    It's against all the rules of public procurement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    An i belive a certain member in Kildare Street also raised the issue of former memebers of one company advising the state about not using the Air Corps.

    The whole tender did not get off to a good start anyway when the government got blow back about waterford not being a base and then changing there mind to including 4 bases



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭sparky42


    You know, looking at the mess of what at the end of the day is a relatively straight forward contract, I can just imagine the level of issues if we were actually tendering for major military equipment... At this rate if/when the MRV or Radar Systems go for tender I can see them being locked up in the courts anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Do you not remember the Air Corps S92 contract?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    There is no such thing as a relatively straightforward €800 million contract.

    It could be for one zillion paper clips and it would still be subject to a bun fight.



  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭mupper2


    ARW allowances issue has been "resolved"

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41174587.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Its paywalled but the times have an article today about Joint EU purchases. There seams to be alot of articles on these joint purchases lately. It would be interesting to see what we buy if we did . New APCs or helicopters?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭sparky42


    The article talks about new APCs and the Radar systems, though I don’t know of any other nation that is currently looking at new radar systems?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    For the Radar maybe one of the Nordic Countrys. As for APCs maybe boxer?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭sparky42


    They have to be projects with multiple members buying in, as I said not sure any of the EU nations currently have the gap that we have in terms of Radar systems, so getting a joint buy up and running could be an issue? As for the APC either Boxer or CV90 would be the ones with the current major hot production lines, I doubt we would go back to tracks so Boxer has to be more likely, but at the same time it’s so in demand that Germany is buying ones from the Australian production line so who knows.

    Either way, it’s long since past time that we started looking for leveraging off other EU nations procurement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    It's a fine idea, but sure the whole notion of extending PESCO participation or entering into scaled procurement is anathema to the eejits who sought to stifle the Forum debates last week.

    The best thing the Government could do is quietly sign up to every exploratory opportunity coming up in the EU and deal individually with potential benefits of joint participation as things arise.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    A Good project if we were accepted in to would be with the Dutch & Belgium on there MCM ship project



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