Cyclists' responsibility for their own safety warning infractions given liberally for trolling etc

Flinty997 · 04-07-2023 3:39pm

So no difference between a bicycle a car and a hgv. Ok then.

the.red.baron · 04-07-2023 3:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804533#Comment_120804533

any input? are you just going to give out to people about overtaking parked cars?

Flinty997 · 04-07-2023 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804589#Comment_120804589

There really nothing I can say to the idea that road craft for a bicycle, car and hgv are all the same. Or a discussion about passing a stationary objects.

Likewise are you just going to give out about hgvs?

?Cee?view · 04-07-2023 3:58pm

The thread title is ridiculous. Cyclists have no responsibility for their own safety. This has been decreed by some lettuce growing cycle lane God. They will only make themselves more visible if it can be shown clearly with voluminous statistics that hi-vis, lights, or whatever, actually makes them more visible (as opposed to common sense). They will only use protection (helmets) if similar statistics are provided. If they haven't used protection (the other kind), their children in their cargo bikes will similarly not use helmets as it is clearly the responsibility of every other road user to ensure that every cyclist takes priority in their hierarchy of safety.

In short:

Bikes = safe and virtuous,

Car drivers = the devil's spawn,

Pedestrians = in the way.

the.red.baron · 04-07-2023 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804622#Comment_120804622

why would i give out about HGVs?

have you ever driven one?

the differences are small, mostly do with size, same with motorbikes, the tests themselves are all remarkably similar, its like why are there 16 different driving license categories?

what about overtaking parked cars, whats your take on that?

Flinty997 · 04-07-2023 4:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804623#Comment_120804623

They should ban dark colored cars, drivers should wear a 5 point harness and a crash helmet. It's just common sense. Not entirely sure why drivers need Garda to tell them to look after their safety with speeding, having a NCT, tax, wearing a seat belt, no drugs or drink and not holding a phone.

Flinty997 · 04-07-2023 4:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804646#Comment_120804646

Why are you giving out about overtaking who knows?

Have you ever flown a helicopter?

What about passing buildings. What's your take on that.

?Cee?view · 04-07-2023 4:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804679#Comment_120804679

Car drivers have a big lump of steel, laminated glass and a seat belt protecting their flesh from whatever they hit. Comparing their safety to a cyclist is like comparing a bike to an HGV...

Flinty997 · 04-07-2023 4:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804782#Comment_120804782

I wasn't comparing anything. I'm just making the point you can make yourself safer in a car. Common sense why not do it.

Why not have a priority campaign to targets driver with no insurance, nct or tax to improve their personal safety in cars. Have they checked their lights are all working, and tires inflated correctly. Only drive brightly coloured cars.

magicbastarder · 04-07-2023 4:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804782#Comment_120804782

by the same token, comparing the danger they pose...

Spook_ie · 04-07-2023 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804819#Comment_120804819

You can make yourself safer in any vehicle, however, there is a big difference between the amount of latent safety built into modern vehicles and the latent safety built into bicycles.

Seth Brundle · 04-07-2023 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804623#Comment_120804623

Primary schools must be off for the summer now! 🙄

Tenzor07 · 04-07-2023 7:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804623#Comment_120804623

It's almost as if this sub group of Society have never been pedestrians themselves, or car/van/bus/truck drivers... oh wait.. they are...

Flinty997 · 04-07-2023 8:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805320#Comment_120805320

Still doesn't explain why drivers refuse to make themselves safer. Drive NCT failures, drive dark colored cars, don't wear a helmet. Have bald underinflated expired tyres, look at their phone. Why not have make a new law drivers need to have helmets.

Spook_ie · 04-07-2023 8:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805603#Comment_120805603

Why? NCT lack of enforcement, Dark Colored Cars You've brought into your own bullshit! Helmet Drivers are usualy encased in a framework of Steel/Plastic an extra helmet would likely only hinder visibily past A/B/C pillars, Bald Under Inflated/Expired Tyres I dunno Enforcement again Phone yeah enforcement. Helmets Why?

Now when you want to talk about road safety perhaps it's time we brought in laws about using mobile phones when cycling must be as distracting as using mobile phones when driving don't you think?

Especially when you see people riding without hands when using them at least when drivers use mobile phones ( not condoning them at all ) they can still hit the brakes with their foot.

McGrath5 · 04-07-2023 8:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804623#Comment_120804623

This thread is ridiculous, drivers need to take responsibility for their own safety. We need to ban dark colour cars, coat all cars in hi-viz, it will only serve to make cars more visible. Crash helmets should be mandatory for all occupants.

All drivers should have adult and child size hi-viz coats for when they enter and exit the vehicle to ensure they do not become invisible when not in a car.

Cars are highly dangerous pieces of machinery, just think of all the accidents and tragedies we could avoid if we implemented the above.

Flinty997 · 04-07-2023 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805712#Comment_120805712

Why? The argument in this thread is any improvement in safety is worthwhile. Why would drivers argue against it. It's common sense.

Flinty997 · 04-07-2023 8:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805717#Comment_120805717

Exactly. They can take lessons from Motorsport a good five point harness. Maybe a roll cage.

Spook_ie · 04-07-2023 8:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805761#Comment_120805761

Because latent safety of motor vehicles improves with newer technology, even PPT improves with built in LED lights on them, what latent safety has improved on bicycles? perhaps the EU should legislate for bicyles to require permanent LED lights on all new bicycles from some such date and maybe at a later date require retrofitting of permanent lights to older bicycles

Spook_ie · 04-07-2023 8:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805761#Comment_120805761

Actually I think the argument is more why ( in the absence of built in safety features ) don't cyclists add to their own safety?

Flinty997 · 04-07-2023 9:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805835#Comment_120805835

For the same reason drivers don't do it.

Flinty997 · 04-07-2023 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805810#Comment_120805810

They improved bicycle safety by fitting better lights to cars and creating self driving cars.

the.red.baron · 05-07-2023 8:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804701#Comment_120804701

lets hope a good nights sleep has you on better form this morning

magicbastarder · 05-07-2023 9:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805835#Comment_120805835

and again, if that argument holds water - why aren't the people advancing it refusing to accept it for motorists too? why is the 'you should change the colour of your overall physical appearance' not applicable to those creating the danger too? on the face of it, what little research there is seems to show that darker coloured cars are more likely to be involved in a collision. so where's the 'if it saves just one life?' argument for car colour? more people die in cars than on bikes, so it could easily have a greater effect.

i'll tell you what i think is the root of this - it's a pure 'i'm alright, jack' attitude. an 'i'm not in danger in my car but you are, on your bike, so it's up to you'. it's a total inversion of how to handle exposure to danger - expecting those exposed to the risk to take a step that those creating the risk refuse to countenance, indeed even find absurd.

in short, if you're saying that cyclists need to wear bright clothes because of the danger on the road, but refuse to accept the same argument for motorists, that's just hypocrisy.

monument · 05-07-2023 9:51am

Trolling won't be tolerated.

-- Moderator

Spook_ie · 06-07-2023 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120807174#Comment_120807174

Nah not really, it's much more difficult to retrofit safety devices to vehicles such as Airbags, Autonomous brakes, 5 Point Harness's, Roll Cages etc. but as vehicles advance these things become more and more common ( well maybe not 5 point harness's but stronger cell structure akin to rollcage development certainly is ) however, to deal with your suggestion of why not get your cars in hiViz yellow or white. If there hadn't been an EU directive to fit DRLs to all new vehicles since 2012 then you might have a minor point, except that motor vehicles are all fitted with HiViz devices called lights so negating the effect of any paint color. Indeed RSA advice back in 2010 was to use dipped headlights and even sparked of Boards threads back then

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055828602/dipped-headlights-during-the-day-any-point

and even before

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055223120/what-lights-should-be-used-during-daylight-hours

I'm sure you yourself have probably noticed that many more drivers ( not all, but then it's not a legally mandated thing ) even if they haven't got DRLs now drive with dipped headlights, if not perhaps you should look more closely because I certainly notice more of them.

So in the absence of built in safety features why don't cyclists take every precaution they could?

magicbastarder · 06-07-2023 3:51pm

you're totally avoiding the question. again. you want cyclists to use lights and change their colour, but will not countenance that for motorists.

it's you who is insisting that a colour change is a wise choice for the road user and repeatedly dodge the question when asked why motorists can't also do it. it's just hypocrisy.

magicbastarder · 06-07-2023 3:58pm

i genuinely just don't understand why motorists don't take every precaution they could; driving round in dark cars when research shows they're more likely to be involved in collisions. they clearly don't care for their own safety.

o1s1n · 06-07-2023 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804448#Comment_120804448

So passing a tree is the same as passing a stationary car now? Does your 'roadcraft' usually prepare for trees suddenly veering out in front of you?

You don't seem to be getting this. The point for you was pointing out the differences.

The counter argument from others who disagree with you was pointing out the similarities.

This is what's known as 'debate'.

John_Rambo · 06-07-2023 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813738#Comment_120813738

Spook, you've already been educated numerous times that hi vis & bright clothing doesn't work. Motorists continue to run over cyclists.

Here's the only real life research available from the University of Bologna after Italy introduced a nationwide law was introduced in October 2010 that requires cyclists to wear high-visibility clothing when riding after dusk and before dawn.

"Data showed that the implementation of legislation imposing high-visibility clothing for cyclist did not have either immediate or long-term effects on the number of bicycles involved in road crashes as well as on its proportion in the total vehicles involved in road crashes"

Research from the Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust and Nottingham University has found “increased odds of a collision crash” among cyclists who wear reflective clothing.

Please just trust the experts and give up on your obsession with other road users clothing. It's not important.

Mods could do with knocking the hi viz thing on the head, it's just going around in circles.

Cyclists' responsibility for their own safety *warning* infractions given liberally for trolling etc

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Cyclists' responsibility for their own safety warning infractions given liberally for trolling etc