Sweden avoiding lockdown

Why would Sweden have taken a position of being in favour or opossed to vaccines when their strategy was chasing herd immunity ?

If you are asking where did I get the information from that the strategy was chasing herd immunity it`s all here in this very thread and straight from the horses mouths of Tegnell and Giesecke from Tegnell e-mails obtained by a Swedish journalist under freedom of information. Those e-mails also included some between Tegnell and his Finnish counterpart that shows the callous attitude of Tegnell in his determination to follow his and Giesecke`s herd immunity chasing strategy.

Tegnell told his Finnish counterpart that he was considering leaving schools open. His counterpart told him Finland had considered doing the same, but their projections were that it would greatly increase the rate of death of those aged and the most vulnerable. Tegnell`s reply "It might be worth it". Sweden kept schools open with threats of fines or social services removing from parents care children that parents wished to keep from attending due to concerns for their health.

Also in this thread, Annika Linde, Tegnell`s predecessor as Sweden`s state epidemiologist admitted after it was clear that chasing herd immunity was not going to work that she knew what the strategy was.

Where in any of that is their this science that Sweden was supposedly following.

As I have said, I have neither the time nor the inclination to go over all this again, (especially when it is all already in this thread), with people who either wish to ignore the actual facts or are attempting to re-write history. And I do not know, nor do I care, where you are getting your information on Finland`s Covid deaths compared to Sweden`s, but unless there was a tsunami of deaths in Finland within the last year then they are very much at variance with Johns Hopkins pandemic tracker which for the period March 1st 2020 to March 29th 2022 shows Sweden`s Covid deaths per million people as being 1,790, Denmark 961, Finland 538, and Norway 428.

I still don't see any evidence that they pursued herd immunity. Allowing a degree of immunity to develop in school children (thereby lowering their ability to pass on the disease later on) is not pursuing herd immunity.

It is all in the link I provided earlier. You can see that around the middle of the 2021 Finland appeared to be doing fairly well compared to Sweden. However shortly after, deaths started to occur and in April of 2002 their overall excess deaths surpassed sadly those of Sweden.

Sweden also stopped cancer screenings at height of pandemic and referrals were down massively. If you have evidence Swedens services continued without interruption post it.

Sweden took a free ride on their neighbours. They were able to rely on their strong health service, and voluntary support for recommended measures.

England tried their approach and had to abandon it. It doesnt scale.

Interview of Norway's equivalent of Tegnell, Preben Aavitsland and Finland's Mika Salminen in a Norwegian newspaper.

Sweden got it right and the unjustified criticism was due to Sweden offering an unwelcome contrast to the narrative the other countries were trying to push.

Full article translated in the tweet.

The WHO has skin in this game though. Not sure they can be replied upon for an impartial analysis.

Yes, because the Swedish approach sort of undermined the strict WHO guidelines which most other countries followed quite eagerly. I don't think its in the WHO's (and those other countries) interest to validate the Swedish approach.

I understand that may be a bit of a broad sweeping statement and I'm not saying I'm denying the WHO being capable of a decent review, but I see a conflict of interest nonetheless.

Cuba developing and distributing their own vaccines was money driven? How did that work?

If COVID was nothing, then approval shouldn't matter, why would Cuba create it's own vaccine? What was the business plan there? (I mean you understand that export controls meant they had to create their own or source from a friendly country, which shouldn't matter if COVID was nothing, they could have done nothing and save on the expense).

Just trying to get some critical thinking going here, because this wasn't a "western big pharma" money grab.

"someone" in Cuba made all this money and convinced the authoritarian cuban government to go along with COVID controls just for sh*ts and giggles?

Your post is nonsensical.

Do you think any government care about the health of their population?

Any chance you might include the context that Gates may have made that statement in? no I don't think you will. You see he is a philanthropist, investing his wealth in improving global health, especially in the third world. People like you are manipulated into thinking out of context quotes reinforce your bizarre beliefs.

Bill Gates and the lizard-people are not secretly running governments, he is a person trying to do something with their wealth to improve the global health situation. People lacking in empathy cannot understand why someone would spend billions on other peoples welfare, so they respond by imagining some nefarious conspiracy instead.

But hey, if you prefer to be informed by some guy on facebook that unraveled the whole conspiracy alone, in his mom's basement, good luck. You serve as a lesson to us all, how deep some people can fall down the rabbit hole.

Life didn't ' go on as normal' in Sweden.

Some areas had restrictions and some businesses suffered due to lack of footfall as people self restricted and stayed home during the early wave.

From Dec 2020 the government brought in restrictions and vaccinations started early 2021 as everywhere.

It is thought that their high excess deaths in 2020 reduced numbers of elderly who might have died in 2021 and 2022 especially as they had very low excrss deaths in the years preceding the pandemic.

This in effect caused a ' harvesting' of elderly Swedes in 2020, and these numbers were reduced with restrictions and changes to elderly treatment in the year after

This has been duscussed and data linked extensively already on the thread, and as Cramcycle says this is expected to level out over the next few years.

A point on restrictions and the 2 tier system...

When vaccinations were being rolled out we were infected here with Alpha and following that Delta which were far more deadly than the current Omicron variant.

People were dying or in ICU largely towards the end of 2021 unvaccinated in much greater numbers, despite restrictions.

So it wasn't a benign infection as some revisionists would like us to believe.

Many people who contracted Delta are still suffering effects of long Covid which is now believed to have cardiac implications for 18 months or more.

Omicron infection while not thought to have contributed to long Covid initially is now believed to be linked to cardiac deaths and illness also.

It's hard to fathom that there are 334 pages of arguing about Sweden's covid response in Ireland in July 2023. I've live in Sweden for seven years. Life did not stop here. There was maybe a few weeks where a few things were shut and bands didn't tour. At the height of it, it was 'recommended' that we wear a mask during rush hour on public transport. I was on public transport everyday and would estimate that around 25% complied with the recommendation and without wanting to sound in anyway racist, these were in my estimate immigrants, probably not very well educated based on the industry start times they were commuting to, and I, at the time pondered whether the hysteria spouted by news outlets in their home states, compounded the fear that led to the compliance if you will. The Swedes for the most part, refused to comply with the recommendations which shocked me as I always attributed how well this country runs to the willingness and ability of it's natives to follow rules and directions. Covid is over lads, find a new obsession or hobby.

If you had spent the pandemic in Ireland with its restrictions and lockdowns, it would be easier to understand. One of the arguments commonly used in favour of increased restrictions here was "Look at Sweden!". This continued long after it was apparent that Sweden did not have huge numbers of dead by EU standards.

The other thing to remember is that data about excess deaths over the extended period, which includes both the pandemic phase as well as the fall-out from the lockdowns, is only really becoming available now. Hence a resurrecting of this thread.