Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Great irony is we are taking in Ukrainian "refugees" to bolster their fight for sovereignty, yet we are relinquishing our sovereignty at an alarming rate. With our open border policies, our ability to control our destiny as a nation is diminishing by the day; indeed, we are no longer a nation in any meaningful sense of the word.

It's an entire continent comprised of 54 countries, why the hell are they here, halfway around the word? Let Africa deal with Africa’s problems.

If my neighbour’s house burns down that if immediate concern to me, if a house a couple of streets over burns down, it’s not so much of a concern, but I may know the people, they may be part of my parish or club’s supporters etc, so I might well help out. If someone’s house burns down half a world away, well I see that as the concern of their neighbours, parish, town, then county or nation.

I don’t see millions of Ukrainians being shipped to Africa or Asia, nor should they, why would they be the concern of whole other continents?

I’ve no interest in saving the whole world, let Africa look after its own rather than exporting its problems to Europe.

So you have no issues with asylum seekers from Europe then? No problem taking them in?

Well, sorry to break it to you here, but even if we did just decide to remove all that snowflakey stuff about the alleviation of human suffering, the problems of the world are very much our problems too. The globalised capitalist economy depends on free trade, free trade depends on global stability, and global stability requires the co-operation of the international community in facing problems together. If we want the resources of the international community that fuel our prosperity, innovation, comforts and economy then that requires participating in the community.

If the whole world sat back and said "f**k em all, we look after our own and nobody else", then you'd need a ring of steel around our airports and ports to avoid the avalanche of Irish people who would depart these shores for the opportunities in resource-rich lands — and we would sure have a lot of fun if those countries just sent them all back here straight away to be part of the meltdown.

You think you are being the voice of unapologetic common sense when you are simply the voice of a misplaced sense of how the interconnected and interdependent world around us works.

But everything you say also applies to the Ukrainians. Ukraine is the largest European country and vast swathes of that enormous landmass are completely safe (particularly the west). In any case, is it their love of Oscar Wilde that induces them to traverse over 3000km and numerous countries to get a small island on the periphery of Europe?

One major issue in the migration debate is the conflation of the Ukrainian refugees and the rest of them from Georgia, Nigeria etc. It's extremely irritating and disingenuous that the government is using the former as a "cover" to somewhat legitimize the latter. For example, in their "summer economic statement" the government pledges

"A ‘non-core’ expenditure provision of €4.0 billion will be put in place for 2024 for temporary measures. This will help provide humanitarian supports for refugees from Ukraine and more limited Covid-19 provision in respect of certain potential continued requirements."

Well, leaving aside the lies about "temporary measures," what about the non-Ukrainians? Why no mention of them and the associated enormous cost? Its profoundly dishonest to simply exclude them from any explicit discussion on cost.

Ukrainian, Nigerian, wherever they're from is irrelevant at this point. We have no more capacity, we're now seeing the fallout and problems as a result of the last year or so, and the resentment it's causing is not only understandable, it was inevitable.

It is not our job to solve the problems of the world, or to resettle anyone unhappy with their lot - especially those who are here under false pretenses or causing social or security issues when they get here.

Our first obligation is to our own native and EU citizens and to solving our own serious - and worsening - issues around housing, healthcare, and all the rest. Once we've tackled those, THEN maybe we can start thinking about the problems of others, although let's not forget that Ireland gives away several hundred million euro in foreign aid each year as well!

As I've said numerous times, we've more than done our part and we are making life in this country worse for everyone (INCLUDING the new arrivals) through the pursuit by Government of what seems like a deliberate resettlement as first proposed under their Ireland 2040 plan.

What kind of future, supports and opportunities are we leaving our next generation - because it's them who will feel the full effects of this current "strategy", just as we've seen in numerous other countries already - except we'll feel it even more because of the aforementioned existing problems, dependency on FDI and the rural/urban divides for employment, and political options that are basically "what degree of Left do you prefer?"

This is becoming a national emergency at this stage. Far more serious than Covid or the financial crisis. This one affects everyone and will last far far longer than either of those. I've said before that it'll become the key election issue yet, and we're not far off that - especially as people are tired of being talked down to or dismissed by others who are grandstanding on these issues.

I've said this before too - enough is enough!

4 billion?? In a single year?

We could make serious strides towards energy independence or built thousands of houses for that.

Instead Ireland gets absolutely nothing, apart from further strain on its services and worse quality of life for its citizens.

Is this a serious question? Really?

I know that the Open Borders/Come One Come All advocates place no value on the concepts of nations, natives and citizens, borders or controls (at least not unless the benefits of same are unavailable to them) - but in the real world these things absolutely matter and are fundamental to how countries and societies operate.

A (native) citizen has a fundamental right to expect that the country and its leadership will put their needs and interests first, above all else and work for the benefit of them and their fellow citizens. To do this we (in theory anyway) elect political representatives, engage in important national conversations and decisions through the likes of referenda, and we pay taxes, obey laws, and contribute positively to our communities and society as our part of this core social contract.

Now that we've covered "Basic Civics 101", why don't you tell me why a random person with a sad story (whose identity or validity we may not even be able to verify) should be given not just these same rights and benefits but in fact be put ahead of those who are ACTUALLY entitled to them first.

Or were you just doing the predictable thing of throwing out a deflecting one-liner because you can't respond to the points properly?

So if we refuse to take Albanian, georgian and Nigerian asylum seekers they'll throw out the 100 paddies living there? I'll take it- sign us up asap!

Interdependent - it's a one way street lad with paddy as suger daddy.

I know that the Open Borders/Come One Come All advocates place no value on the concepts of nations, natives and citizens, borders or controls (at least not unless the benefits of same are unavailable to them) - but in the real world these things absolutely matter and are fundamental to how countries and societies operate.

I'm not open border anything stupid waffle.

A (native) citizen has a fundamental right to expect that the country and its leadership will put their needs and interests first, above all else and work for the benefit of them and their fellow citizens. To do this we (in theory anyway) elect political representatives, engage in important national conversations and decisions through the likes of referenda, and we pay taxes, obey laws, and contribute positively to our communities and society as our part of this core social contract.

What fundamental right are you referring to?

Actually I'm not waiting, you have no fundamental right to expect the state to put you above anyone especially not other Eu citizens. More waffle

Now that we've covered "Basic Civics 101", why don't you tell me why a random person with a sad story (whose identity or validity we may not even be able to verify) should be given not just these same rights and benefits but in fact be put ahead of those who are ACTUALLY entitled to them first.

Basic civics 101 🤣🤣🤣

Fundamental rights 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Or were you just doing the predictable thing of throwing out a deflecting one-liner because you can't respond to the points properly?

indeed.

Anyway back to my original question which you never answered despite the post of waffle.

Why have we an obligation to our own native and Eu citizens?

Under what "fundamental right" have I as an Irish citizen got an obligation to any other citizen of this state, and what "fundamental right" extends that to all EU citizens?

No waffle this time

They are dead right. We brought them in under false pretences and then purposely dumped them on the streets.