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General British politics discussion thread

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    #9422
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820385#Comment_120820385

    But the demographic this appeals to is grey haired racists and bigots, mixed in with a load of people on the scrapheap in the 'Red Wall'. Pinning their electoral hopes on these wasters and losers is a very odd direction to go in.



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    #9423
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,627 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820474#Comment_120820474

    Thing is I reckon they are not even thinking that far ahead anymore. It's just ideology and habit almost like the ruling government has already turned into the opposition and is doing things just to oppose the other side.

    Honestly I don't think even the grey haired racists will stand behind being this miserable to orphaned children.



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    #9424
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820878#Comment_120820878

    I do think the English media is a factor in all this. Glorifying Brexit and racism (the refugee issue etc) and denouncing anything 'woke' or 'liberal'. The Tory Party and their numerous press pals / cheerleaders are in a horrible enmeshed relationship.



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    #9425
    O'Neill
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭O'Neill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820145#Comment_120820145

    I would describe people like Tobias Ellwood and Caroline Nokes as above. Would never vote for them in a million years but still respect them. What on earth they're still doing in the party baffles me to be honest. I've said this in another forum, this is nothing to with being a conservative (which I'm not but respect) and closer to fascism to be honest....pretty dark.



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    #9426
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,627 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821276#Comment_120821276

    There comes a point (now we'll passed) where any Tory or voter hiding behind the "I worked hard for that money, why should I give it away in taxes" reason for voting need to be called out as being just as evil as the people they prop up all in the name of low tax, fiscal conservativism.



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    #9427
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The Tories could win less than 100 seats for the first time in their 345 year history, a surprise new poll has found.

    Conservative MPs have accused Rishi Sunak of being "missing in action" as the party heads for electoral oblivion .

    A new Calculus poll suggests that any gains made by the PM after Liz Truss's disastrous spell in charge have been wiped out, with Labour now recording a 21 point lead.

    Astonishingly this would see Labour gain a landslide majority with 328 seats, while the Tories would return just 89.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-could-reduced-less-100-30410766

    I highly doubt this will come to pass but the fact that a mainstream news outlet, albeit a left-leaning one such as the Mirror has openly reported this should be shock enough by itself.

    It's a bit baffling that they're still trying to tap racists and sour old bourgeois types for votes. That pool is by now bone dry, one would think.

    Somehow, they've managed to unite those without any hope of owning a home and those paying mortgages against them.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #9428
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,330 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Could the Lib Dems come to challenge Tories to being the second largest party? Something like a Whig revival.



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    #9429
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,292 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821799#Comment_120821799

    Don't tease me with such headlines. A Tory wipeout, no total destruction, would be wonderful and no less than this party deserves at this point. Sad to see sensible conservatism buried under the weight of performative cruelty against (the wrong type of) brown people, just to make happy a shrinking, shrieking base - but only total humiliation and rejection by the population will suffice at this point IMO. The Tories need to be taught a lesson.



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    #9430
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I could see the Conservatives completely annihilated at the next election. They seem way more unpopular and hated than John Major's government in the mid 1990s. Part of the problem with them being a hugely controversial and divisive administration is this strategy could blow up in their faces - they are making themselves hated, even by people they would normally expect to vote for them.



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    #9431
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821837#Comment_120821837

    I don't disagree but my luck simply isn't that good. It looks like they're going full Trump as well:

    https://twitter.com/Gilesyb/status/1677656126073053185

    Real sense of moral and cultural collapse off of this.

    I agree with regard to sensible conservatism but that's what happens when you hand power over the party's leadership to 0.2% of the population who are well-heeled bigots. Most of the centrists left or were pushed and the rest just learned to let the tide take them wherever.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #9432
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821808#Comment_120821808

    Doubtful with FPTP. If the LibDems went full-on economic liberalism along the lines of the German FDP they might take a lot of Home Countries seats but in large parts of the country they are barely holding into deposits.



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    #9433
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821302#Comment_120821302

    You'll be surprised at the number of people who still consider them the lesser of two evils.



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    #9434
    rock22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭rock22


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820400#Comment_120820400

    Will Starmer be brave enough to criticise it?



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    #9435
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,399 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821276#Comment_120821276

    Fascists need an internal enemy and an external threat to keep the reigns of power. They dehumanise their political opponents, blame all their problems on scapegoats and then scare their voters into thinking that the opposition will open the borders and allow all the bad people in so they have to vote fascist or society will collapse

    The Tories use the hostile environment to create political scapegoats. Sunak is dangerously close to waging his re-election campaign on the single issue of stopping the boats.

    He's unlikely to win based on that, but that doesn't make his party any less fascistic



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    #9436
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,627 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120822136#Comment_120822136

    Ya and at this stage those people are scum as far as I am concerned.

    I have had it out with plenty of the "low tax" Tory voters over the years. I wanded them that their voting for those creatures would lead to some horrible sht and I can't wait to meet again and say I told them so.



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    #9437
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120824617#Comment_120824617

    The extraordinary thing is that refugee numbers entering the UK are not especially high. 45,000 arriving by boat last year would be the equivalent of about 3000 people making their way to Ireland by boat in a 12 month period.

    This is a completely manufactured "crisis" by the Tory Brexit regime and their far right press pals.



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    #9438
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120824948#Comment_120824948

    Unfortunately that cohort is still at least a third of the population. I still havn't got over how many of my friends voted for BJ in 2019 because him being a narcissistic bullsh!tter was obvious to anyone who knew anything about him.



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    #9439
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825440#Comment_120825440

    There's a strong school of thought that most of Johnson's supporters knew full well he was a liar and narcissist but felt he was a liar and narcissist who was on their side and who would screw other people over i.e. these populist BS merchants appeal to the very worst people in the country.



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    #9440
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825517#Comment_120825517

    At the end of the day we need to live with these bastards. 😔



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    #9441
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,330 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    No, there fecking history hopefully.



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    #9442
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828016#Comment_120828016
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828553#Comment_120828553

    They're apparent demise will only be transient. I've seen nothing from Sir Keir to suggest that he's going to be building any sort of long term support base once he reaches No. 10. He'll be taking the reins at a perilous and difficult time and it won't take much to bring him down since he inspires enthusiasm from precisely nobody. None of the issues plaguing the UK, self-inflicted or no, will be resolved any time soon and a lot of this is outside the power of the British government to solve.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #9443
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,330 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I don't mind if the Tories swing back to becoming just a conservative party. Danger is they'll move further to the right.



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    #9444
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828871#Comment_120828871

    That's the point, they won't. The moderates have either been cowed or ejected from the party. Extremes don't naturally become moderate over time, they just become ever more extreme.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #9445
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,292 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828871#Comment_120828871

    Can they though? At this stage: could they move further to the right? National headlines have basically written of a party so bereft of lip-service compassion, they'll paint over murals in a child refugee centre. We've entered a level of strategic cruelty, if we saw it in a TV drama we'd snort at how ludicrous the characterisation was.

    At this stage, the only lurch further to the right seems like it'd have to involve Oswald Mosley levels of right-wing politics; jackboots n' all. Maybe electoral humiliation might force some of the more craven flavours of Tory to slink into retirement, allow the actual fiscal conservatives to restore some humanity, and sanity, to the party.



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    #9446
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,627 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    My prediction is their next leader will be a right wing nut bag who will fail miserably.

    The need to go through that before they can get to the point of looking for the next Cameron/Blair type who can appeal to the middle.



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    #9447
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    If Labour could bring themselves to abolish FPTP and bring in STV, then the Tories would split into two different parties. Many to the One Nation wing might move towards the liberals.

    The risk for Labour would be that the Labour party would also split into two, or even three, separate parties.

    FPTP gives party central office huge power that STV takes away. That is why many countries prefer the list system so the central office still have levers to pull.



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    #9448
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828935#Comment_120828935

    Absolutely, they can. The right of the party have firmly asserted themselves and now occupy most of the senior Cabinet roles. Of those I recognise, only Tom Tugendhat and Ben Wallace seem to be in any way moderate. They've undermined the freedom of people here to protest, something that they rarely do anyway. It'll happen by a series of nasty, vindictive little measures that the Labour party will somehow endlessly prevaricate on when it comes to the question of their removing them.

    The best comparison may be to the Blair years where they even elected Iain Duncan Smith despite Blair dealing with the controversy of the Iraq war. Now that the party membership chooses the leader at the final ballot, this process looks set to continue. They don't want a sensible moderate, they want a culture warrior who'll slash taxes and brutalise anyone they despise.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829001#Comment_120829001

    My money's on Lee Anderson or Suella Braverman at this point. No way Jeremy Hunt gets through the membership if he decides to run.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #9449
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828834#Comment_120828834

    Starmer is basically banking on the SNP imploding. The alternative is a 1945/1997 style swing but I don't see the enthusiasm required for one of those.



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    #9450
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830595#Comment_120830595

    Well, in the short term it makes sense. Unless HMS UK hits another iceberg it put in its own way, I can't see him doing any less than extremely well in Scotland. The problem is that he's going to win because Labour are not the Conservatives. That's it. I was warm towards him not long ago but he's come out with nothing whatsoever to inspire in me any sort of hope that this country will be a better place after years of Labour being in government. Even if he promised to remove the squalid little protest bill, that'd be something and it'd cost him very, very little.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #9451
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829065#Comment_120829065

    Without FPTP Labour would be dead and buried by now. Lot of their old guard still have an our-time-will-come mentality even though it means they are typically in office for 6 years then out for 15-20.

    I can forsee STV being introduced for English local elections as it is in Scotland, but for Westminister it'll be AMS if a anything.



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