Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

I saw it with my nephew and he loved it too.

And he doesn’t see any reason why Ford can’t make more of them :)

The movie probably needs to make over €900 million to break even given it's budget (over €300 plus €100-150 marketing), the cinemas take approx 50% of the box office.

This is not going to get anywhere near that, this is a complete and utter flop. Remember, Disney's revenue model would normally also include a lot of downstream revenue, merchandise, amusement park rides, hotel stays etc....and their movies are flopping all over the place!!

I think the nub of the issue is that creativity and massive global corporations don't mix, the corporate culture is too strong, throw in modern day's corporate religion and you end up with a declining empire, I can see sell off's coming, Disney has become a sh#tshow and the people in charge are to blame, not a bunch of online movie critics!

It is a massive budget alright and I’ve been told before that marketing costs are as high as that.

And I can’t see where that marketing money is being spent. My nephew and his father are the only people I know who knew this movie was coming out. I haven’t seen a poster or anything promoting the film. I’m not saying that Galway/Mayo should have images on every bus but that kind of money should mean the marketing is everywhere.

As to the creativity, the movie was, you may not think but regardless I don’t think that is why movies are not being successful .

The crap some people watch like that reality stuff shows that people are not looking for creative movies and TV.

Got a couple of emails today from cinemas I have used when in the States on both coasts saying this is the final weekend for the movie.

Not a good sign if it’s being dropped that quick.

People don’t know a film is good until they see it so whether it is good or bad is not what is affecting bums on sets.

And how people actually pay any attention to critics? Or even listen to or read reviews?

How many people follow those YouTubers or others who just love to rant every film is crap? Their followers are a small group by comparison to movie going audience.

Marvel, Pixar, etc. - cinemas were always packed before the lockdown.

Box office takings are down in general aren’t they? Isn’t that a result of the lockdown?

People have just lost interest in going to the cinema because everything can be streamed eventually.

600 people where I work and I would confidently wager a very hefty sum that that only two people went to see Maverick at the cinema - and one of the 2 is me.

Love or hate Last Crusade, it's a million miles better than most movies being made now. Or maybe that's just me as I really dislike the appearance of digital cinematography.

they are 2 different things, not making the right movies and the movies they do make not giving themselves the best chance.

Someone made a nice contrast between this film and Daniel Greg's Bond and Q , they end up helping each other out because Bond isnt the tech expert. In this film the character that is the archaeological legend and teaches it in a university, finder of the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail gets no respect from someone with none of the experience he has. Forget the dodgy de-aging, the real uncanny valley is the bad writing that makes human characters in movies act in not quite human ways.

I don't know why you are fighting this...the quality of movies have deteriorated noticably over the last ten years, and an idiot can see why.

The movies people will see in massive numbers are different from those that are flopping....Hollywood can't even do romcoms anymore let alone proper comedies. Movies were always available at home long before the streaming services, so that isn't impacting the movie going public, you don't need youtubers to tell you what is good and what is not, the trailers are enough.

Hollywood is in a fairly noticeable decline, it doesn't take a genius to guess what has happened.

Maybe my choice of language was incorrect, I didn't mean to call anyone an idiot let alone you, it is just obvious to many why Hollywood is struggling. It seems some still can't see it!

The inability to write decent characters that people can relate to...there hasn't been a male or female character created that has had a meaningful cultural impact in a decade (comic book heroes, if that is your thing have been around for a long time)...nothing that is being created today (or in recent years) will be watched in the future...even Avatar, by any measure a blockbuster is also strangely devoid of relatable characters, the appalling gender-swapping genre has also been an unmerciful flop for the industry, even female actors are speaking out about it.

Jeff Lebowski was just one character that had a cultural impact from the 90s that most people are aware of and that movie wasn't even a hit!!

The new diversity laws the Oscars are imposing are just going to speed up the collapse of the industry, it's sad really. Todd philips was right, woke idiots have ruined the industry.

I don't have much time so I'll be quick. I ignored all the media and reviews on this as I normally do with blockbusters. It reminded me of that middle Star Wars movie in the new trilogy, not in a good way. Awful turgid stuff with a forced character we're supposed to root for in the woman that accompanies Indie throughout the movie, she reminded me so much of purple haired lady in that middle Star Wars movie, awful. What an awful sendoff for such a great character in Indiana Jones. Not to mention they now have Indie as a run down shell of a man, ah of course, where have I seen this before...yep - Mark Hamill in THAT middle Star Wars movie.

I too went to see this today. To my surprise - I thought it was really good! Beautiful set pieces, skilfully handled action, solidly paced and directed and a brilliant central performance from Harrison Ford. Mads Mikkelsen was excellent as were all the villains. Didnt miss Spielberg at all - James Mangold did a great job. Didn't like Phoebe Waller Bridge though, who managed to be as annoying as Willie Scott and Short Round combined.

Streaming is one factor for a film like this bombing but the main reason I suspect is that most of the blockbusters the last ten years have been absolute trash and it would be reasonable to assume this would also be (and it isn't!).

That is a very cynical attitude. Happy that a movie (or anything) has failed.

And it is the last INDIANA JONES movie - that was the intent from the start. The role is never going to be recast. There was some ideas for a another prequel show but that was cancelled long ago.

Crystal Skull underwhelmed? As I recall it made $700/800 million . Bad reviews and a “cultural punching bag”? Nobody who profited from that gave a ****.

90% CGI ?

Where did you get that number?

Out of thin air or out of the blue? Either way it is wrong unless all the magazines, cast and crew are lying …

It has not failed at the box office because it is a bad movie, it has failed because people are not going to see it. Likewise, people going in droves doesn’t mean a movie is good - it just means it has attracted attention.

Your first paragraph - that is exactly how I feel with the exception of being annoyed by Helena. I thought she was great. And Willie is supposed to be over the top annoying. ;)

It was hyperbole. Whatever the figure the movie is crammed full of CGI that easily could've been practical, and if practical, would've been far more realistic rather than a weightless CGI spectacle.

It's not an argument against CGI. It's an argument against excessive CGI and CGI being used to create scenes that practical could deliver, and the loss of relatability as a result.

That's without touching on other issues like casting and plot.

As for box office, you are obviously correct that box office takings have no correlation on a movie being good or bad.

However it's a little more nuanced when it's a massive established franchise name tanking at the box office. A new IP failing to make headway is more understandable than a massive, well establish franchise flopping hard.

We already know there's nothing wrong with the Box Office widely speaking and so the issue isn't audiences. So the question is specifically why aren't people going to see Indiana Jones?

For me it's a simple combination of a) indifference to a sequel there was no particular demand for and b) it being a weak movie. I paid my ticket price but didn't think it was very good nor did the people I went with. All of us then told people the same thing, making them even less likely to consider it a must watch in the cinema.

That was replicated across the world. This is how weak films get hurt at the box office, too many people relegate them to "Sure I'll wait until it's streaming".

None of that means it's expressly bad or unwatchable, but there's no great mystery as to why it flopped to my mind. It's just a redundant and weakly made sequel that didn't need to be made, and if they were going to make it, it had to be far better than just "ok".

6 PWB is not a box office draw , not sure how she ever made it past TV?

I loved this. Maybe it's the connection to the character. I've seen all 5 films in the cinema so I definitely grew up as an Indiana Jones fan. I got the sense that everyone involved had an emotional attachment to what they were doing.

You can't compare this to superhero summer blockbusters. It's apples and oranges. I watched the first 15 minutes of Black Adam and had to turn it off. Green screen rubbish. Bright colours, loud noises, annoying characters. It's aimed at teenagers and nobody else. Happy meal cinema.

This new Indiana Jones film doesn't reach the heights of McQuarrie/Nolan/Miller blockbuster cinema but it's comfortably ahead of everything else.