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Tour de France 2023 ***spoilers*** Warning in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,569 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭DonegalBay


    I think the fawning over Cavendish is a little OTT even for the Brits, don't think Froome ever got this level of attention and what he achieved far outweighs anything Cav did. Granted, part of that was probably down to the fact that Froome was not a 'true' Brit and their respective personalities, but still. I just think too often, there is this mantra that Cavendish is the undisputed greatest sprinter, no questions asked which to me is ridiculous and a lot of that is down to the media. No comparison of how sprinting was different in previous eras or who Cavendish went up against in his peak years, just the repated fact he has 34 Tour stages and nobody else comes close.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,648 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Big part of why the British media/GCN/Eurosport are obsessed with Cavendish is because he collaborates/cooperates a fair bit with the media.

    He’s always doing segments and bits with them, engages in interviews and actually had conversations with them.

    Plus he’s raced alongside or with the likes of Adam Blythe, Dan Lloyd, Matt Stephens etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,375 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Plus there is an awful lot of time to fill on sprint stages when nothing is happening.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,718 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Cavendish was also the first of the golden generation. There was a time when his wins were believed to be the greatest achievements British cycling would ever see.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭DonegalBay


    Yeah, David Millar had gone down in flames and a new star was needed. I remember Cycle Sport Magazine in 09-10, it was pretty much Armstrong or Cavendish on the front cover almost every month. Sprinters were always a bit of a sideshow, but when Cav came along, they got elevated to being ranked alongside the greats of the sport.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,172 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Carlton Kirby is an English man whose a huge cycling fan and is lucky enough to be a commentator. It's no surprise that he's a huge fan of Mark Cavendish. I am not a fan of Mark Cavendish but respect what he's done in his career. I'm glad he isn't going to break Eddy Merckx record of stage wins.

    I completely understand how Carlton is so gutted by it though. I'd be the same if an Irish rider got injured. I remember when Sean Kelly was leading the Vuelta and got piles, apparently one of them was the size of an egg. I was gutted when he had to pull out with two days to go. I was every bit as bad as Kirby was today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭cunavalos


    One the most impressive Mark Cavendish statistics is that he only has 59 Top 10's in the Tour de France and 34 of those were victories.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,172 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Anyway Stage 9

    I think this is a breakaway stage. It's lumpy most of the way. I think we'll see a big group get away. I'd expect Gall, Ciccone and Pinot to be in it.

    As regards the two way GC battle. I don't think either team will chase the break. UAE learned their lesson on Wednesday and Jumbo learned theirs on Thursday.

    The end is brutal and if the break doesn't have 7+ minutes I could see Vingegaard and Pog racing for the win.

    It's been a long race without a rest day so far, I'd imagine everybody is tired and tomorrow is predicted to be 30°.

    Puy de Dome has a brutal finish to it. The last 4km averages 12%. It's not that bad before then.

    I don't believe the two main men will attack each other unless one looks in bad shape. The reason I think this is because everybody has to be tired at this stage and if you attack it could blow up on you.

    We know the last domestique standing will almost certainly be Sepp Kuss. It'll be two against one again but Pog showed the last day that he's willing to sit on Vingegaard's wheel.

    So I'm predicting no chase of the break from Jumbo or UAE and most likely no attack between Vingegaard and Pog.

    I'll pick Gall for the stage win but I'd love it if Pinot is involved and wins it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,569 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Pinot and Gall are in 17th and 18th place 7-8 mins down. I cant see them bring given a lead tbh.

    Powless will have to turn up today if he wants to stay in dots, gall will have to stay close to him and try and attack also.

    Magnus Cort will surely try and get away again today but he wasnt allowed yesterday and than might not change today.

    Johanssen and Guerriero are in third and fourth for KOM and might fancy their chances for a stage win

    Pidcock could be an outsider if he can get over the Col de la Nugere first and gain time with 10km downhill before climbing the last 13km but thats a big ask.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,189 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I think the reason Cav got so much more attention than Froome was they could claim he was the “greatest” at something. They love that.


    34 stages in the tour is an amazing achievement. So they claim he’s the greatest sprinter ever, it’s debatable but reasonable. Matt Stevens described his as the “most successful rider in tour history” the other day. That’s just BS, Merckx won 34 stages, 5 Tour, 3 green and 2 polka dot jerseys.


    So, I feel terrible for him. Hope he recovers well soon. But I won’t miss the hyperbole.


    Really looking forward to Pog taking yellow today.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,189 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Kelly didn’t get piles! He had a boil on his gooch.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,189 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    That last climb is a beast. It should suit Vingegaard better, being the lighter man.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭cosalofa


    Bardet will have targeted this stage. He is from the area and himself and Cavagna are (probably) the only riders in the peloton to have tested the climb more than once. Not sure if he will be let go in a break though.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Yes but that's not what you said. He was competitive in 3 of the 4 sprint stages. It requires a lot going right for him, but he was right up there



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,569 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    He wasnt even close come finish line in any of them.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,774 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    100% for all my rants about Cav, he has been far more competitive than I expected and up there with riders I thought would have left him for dust at this stage. His last green jersey was an easier one due to the taking out of competition IMO but you can only race who is at the line with you and he done it well. Glad I don't have to eat my casquette this year but like it or not, there are pro riders at the highest level who could only dream of even coming close to doing as well as he was.

    As for the best sprinter of all time, it is too varied a question, what type of stages, what type of races etc. All in all, I think Sagan was better as they are the two I think are the closest in terms of like for like rider but if it comes to sprinters as a definition, it is a silly question, one day races, flat races, ones with slight uphills, ones with an attritional course to get through first. Unless someone comes up with a strict qualification on what is the most important.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    He was quite literally second and probably would've won but for his gears jamming up.


    You've tried to claim he wasn't close or didn't have the legs. The evidence of 3 of the sprint stages show that youre talking nonsense.


    If some of the others had his eye for a gap and going for it, thered be a few more winners by now



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,263 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    The who wins the most pan flat stages is the best sprinter, and Sagan isn’t close to being the best of his generation, never mind the best ever.

    Cavendish, Cipolini, Petacchi, McEwan, Kittel. Sagan’s best sprint couldn’t compete with them at their best

    Sagan was an amazing rider and could win all types of races. A truly incredible cyclist. Not close to the sprint levels of Cav etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,248 ✭✭✭nc6000




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,569 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Thats if you believe the nonsense about his gears.

    He had chances in two sprints and couldn't take either.

    He had chances in intermediate sprints and couldn't win them either.

    Hes completely overrated based on former glories, he has one sole stage victory this year and it was in the giro with Kirsch who isnt any great sprinter coming second.

    Its easier for cav to be out of the tour than spend the next two weeks not being good enough to win a stage, not having to listen to the commentators wax lyrical about him is just an added bonus



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Cetyl Palmitate




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭Doc07


    What time will they be hitting the final climb today? Around 3pm?



  • Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭cosalofa


    They'll be arriving in Clermont which is at the bottom of the climb at 4.55 if they average 40kmh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,522 ✭✭✭at1withmyself


    A whole lot of crap in one post there. As pointed out to you already he was competitive in sprints and came second in one sprint. He had bike trouble during the stage which was televised and it does happen that people have mechanicals, why would he fake it. He clearly had to sit down before getting back up and going a second time.

    He wasn't aiming for intermediate points so why you bring that up is bizarre. He won the green jersey only 2 years ago and a stage in the Giro this year but no doubt you'll pick on the lack of competition. The fact is that he can only race against who's lined up in the race.

    I'm not a fan of sprints or Cav but he deserves the respect for what he's achieved. Yes the British media is tough to listen to but hey he's British.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,375 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I will miss Cav as I liked the way he sprinted... wont miss the OTT Eurosport stuff though even making allowances for a reasonable sense of national partisanship. But it seems like detached commentary is old fashioned these days in sport in general.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,918 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    I see UAE will not be co-operating with Netflix for season 2 of Unchained. To be more specific they have said they will treat them like all other media whatever that means.




  • Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke


    I'll bite, but since your first post about the Tour, most of them have been nonsense:

    Others have said that they saw Cavendish's chain post-race.

    Everyother cyclist had a chance on those sprints, but this year there is one sprinter head and shoulders above others. There would have been other chances and there's a decent chance that something small will go wrong for Philipsen on one of those days.

    Who cares about the Intermediate sprints?

    He's not currently rated as best or even close to been best by anyone. So I don't know what you mean by him being "overrated". He's rated as being good enough to possibly win a stage.

    "Easier for Cav" - have some respect for the sheer amount of hard work needed for him to get to his current level.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,189 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Right, moving on from Cav…….


    I’ve finally been subjected to the team bus on Eurosport. What a load of shite

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,375 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Coverage on TG4 not starting until 14:50 cos of the GAA.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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