Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Nothing shows the gap in age between the Millennials running Ukraine and the gerontocracy running Russia than their respective media campaigns.

Russian MoD messaging always takes itself so seriously. There's never any fun or humour in it. It's all about conveying "Russia Strong". It's often just looped footage of Russian soldiers in suspiciously clean uniforms on maneuvers or even just this guy reeling off a bunch of made up figures each night

In contrast, Ukrainian MoD messaging:

Yes, and so true.

Poland knows it cannot totally rely on Article 5 to guarantee its safety from Russian attack. I get the unshakeable feeling that if a Russian attack were ever to happen on Poland (most likely not imminently because Russia are so militarily depleted just with Ukraine) that you'd have this whole tedious conversation of "...do we want to risk nuclear war over Poland?". If that conversation in any way did happen, it would be a complete green light for the USA's rivals to start moving on territory they wanted to control.

Quite possibly, he's some wily operator. Keeping options open. Hardly a trustworthy ally though,

Maybe so but during the NATO bombing of Serbia over Kosovo, NIS Airport was targeted and several drifted over and fell in the City itself, 3 klms away. 2nd bombing was more than 7 KLms away from the airport, also in the City 14 deaths, 28 injured plus one more death in 2000 from an unexploded Cluster bomb. After the war stopped, hundreds of unexploded Cluster bombs were found in the Serbian countryside. I've seen a few of them ( at least their parachutes } but always kept far away from them, much more so than unexploded shells or rockets half buried in the ground. I was specifically warned about their unpredictability, and how lethal they were.

The way to look at that is, considering the fact that in any war zone anywhere in the world, the land is so badly contaminated with all manner of unexploded ordinance, singling out cluster bombs for special attention is a bit superfluous.

There are several assumptions to that idea Danzy... the main one being that the soldier behind the 6 foot of concrete is in good shape and fighting fit, well supplied with arms, food clothing etc. Another one is the 6 ft concrete walls..you would not want to equate 6ft of Russian standard ( especially Military standard) with its European equivalent, and definitely not after its been through a winter in that part of the world....while they will remain an obstacle, they are not as formidable as they may seem at first sight. The mines of course will always be a problem. But fighting as Ukraine is fighting now destroying the Russian soldiers fitness to fight, is a very good plan.

Nazis in Ukraine should never have been a talking point for Russia, anyway. Not only would such people pose no threat whatsoever to Russian territory, but Russia had a powerful mercenary group called Wagner that was operating at Putin's pleasure. Basic concept, here, but if a country cannot or will not deal with its own Nazis, what cause has it got to be complaining about anyone else's?

However, the Nazi thing was only ever really for domestic consumption, anyway. For the generation who remember the Great Patriotic War and have a general fetish for the hardship endured during it. Everyone else can see it as even more of a sham argument than WMDs in 2003.

Could you point out where the shells will come from?

Germany, Britain, France, et al still seem to be trying to get the paperwork through to get production ramped up. None of whom have capacity to give anything anytime soon.

The US has released cluster munitions, only because Biden has acknowledged that stocks are running low on their side. South Korean shells are back-filling the stocks that the US are releasing to Ukraine. Even the US are under strain with regard to supply

In the meantime, I will make a gruesome, but likely very correct prediction. Whatever number of Russian shell production that people have in mind (I hear capacity of 1M shells a year), I bet they will beat it.

I said at the end of 2022, everyone was sitting their laurels, patting themselves on the back for the imminent collapse of the Russian army.

Here we are in 2023, everyone is doing the exact same thing, patting themselves on the back for the imminent collapse of the Russian army.

No one seems to give a sh1t that the pledged deliveries (tanks and shells) have been completely missed.

Indeed. Despite potential logistics in getting supplies to Ukraine, they are being afforded the resources of the entire NATO alliance, none of which is under sanction and many of whom have strictly adhered quality standards for their equipment.

Contrast this to Russia, who must lean upon an ultimately finite supply of weapons they inherited from the Soviet Union, which is increasingly looking like a very different beast to the modern Russian Federation. The supply chains the Soviets built are either long gone, decayed or ironically located in places like Ukraine. The Russians must rely upon the munitions the Soviets made back in the day, of which there are many, but unfortunately for them many of these stockpiles were poorly maintained, meaning that much of it might be little more than very dangerous rust piles.

Their hope for new supplies come from Iran, a country that can’t hope to meet the rate or quality of munitions supplied by NATO, and can be very easily cut off if Isreal get cheeky again and strike their factories. Then there’s North Korea, actual experts at maintaining Soviet kit, who may not be willing to give up their supplies in case of fighting with South Korea. Finally there’s China, who are not above quietly selling shells to Russia for the right price. Problem is that the supply lines would take ages to restock via China and Chinese munitions would be piss-poor clones of Soviet weapons.

If the Soviet Union of the 70s was suddenly time-traveled into the place of the current Russia, then maybe they’d have a shot. But today’s Russia, now removed from some of the more industrial elements of the Soviet empire, and without a Warsaw Pact to back them up, is now a decaying shadow of itself thar had little more than gas money to keep it going. Their defeat on the battlefield is a matter of time, but their defeat as a nation happened long ago.

And is Russia one of the countries who have signed up to the cluster munitions convention?

It's always easy to ban weapons if you are a country who doesn't need to use them in the first place. But when you're fighting against someone who is using them?

Yeah but cruise missiles and bombs and tanks are like totally justifiable!!!

This is war, none of it is justified but it is what it is.

There is one country swinging it’s Mickey about nuking countries and it’s not Ukraine.

If cluster bombs help Ukraine free their land from barbarian raping scumbags then bring them on.

Cluster munitions are vile horrible weapons, they should ever be needed.

But you know what? The Russians could leave. They could go tomorrow, they could go this very minute and return to their actual country and put an end to this monstrous nonsense they they put upon Ukraine. They could stop shelling Ukrainian cities, they could stop murdering and raping citizens under their “care”. They could stop stealing children and go the f*ck HOME, and put an end to all of this.

It is on the Russians and not the desperate nation defending themselves for the fact that these vile weapons are in play at all. They don’t need to be be used if Russia would just get a hint and do the right thing.

Ukrainians can do what they want in Ukraine in defence of their sovereign nation, in my opinion. They are an independent nation, with the agency that confers.

Could cluster munitions be used to clear minefields

It's not that, it's just the latest putinbot talking point whataboutery while ignoring their use by russia directly against civiiians (i.e. war crimes).

It also makes it really easy to spot them now.