DART+ (DART Expansion)

I thought the plans for Spencer Dock involved allowing services to northern line and both westbound lines?

This would require two things, which are unlikely or impossible:

1) a very sharp turn southwards towards the river after a steep incline from Northern line

2) closure of the freight line into Dublin port

I found this report which was prepared for Irish Rail in 2020 and discusses in detail the issues I'm raising.

In this report you can see the TBM was supposed to start exactly where the Dart line is now being built, not to the East as you claim.

Option B2 in this report is the chosen option for Dart+ West. This option clearly outlines the massive conflict that is created for DU.

Please read this report and you'll conclude that DU will NOT happen in Docklands, if Dart+ West goes ahead as planned.

11m isn't actually that deep, only 4 more stories down. So not exactly the end of the world. I suppose from reading the rest of the comments, the real problem is, because there is no plan or commitment to DU, nobody knows the future orientation of the track. Might all be pie in the sky and a waste of money.

What characteristics have the soil got that make it impossible to excavate?

Has soil like this been excavated anywhere in the world before?

I presume this means a TBM wouldn’t be able to excavate this soil either for the tunnel anyway- if this indeed where the tunnel would go?

If DART+ Tunnel* ever happens, it will only be possible on the basis of the following, both of which seem to be ignored in the conversation here;

1. The DART+ West Spencer Dock station ceases operation and all services temporarily terminate at the existing Docklands station (working under the operational station isn't going to happen)
2. Tunnel boring starts at the western end and bores to the final Tunnel SD station location (i.e. soth of Mayor Street)

With 1., you excavate deeper through the first SD station to create the approach to the final SD station further south. The relocation could be minimised by keeping the DART+ West SD station operational for as long as possible. This means excavating the TBM extract shaft and new SD station south of Mayor Street before doing any further work north of Mayor Street, i.e. SD station continues to operate north of Mayor Street while works happen south of it.

2. then facilitats 1. because you don't need as much space at SD. Starting tunnelling in the city centre never made sense, it means all spoil has to be brought out from the city centre and all materials need to be brought into the city centre before entering the tunnel. It is far better to start tunnelling on the west side of the city near the motorway network which will make removal of soil and delivery of materials much easier. It also minimises disruption at SD as per 1. above.

*DU is dead, people need to stop thinking in terms of it. DART+ Tunnel will be a new project and not replicating previous intentions.

Noting above, if all the DART+ plans happen, would a ‘full-length’ DART Underground line be fully needed medium/ long-term?

IF - one of the main aims of DU had been to link the Cork Main-Line - into the City Centre proper(?) - i.e. to link Heuston Station, to the City Centre... could a DU tunnel terminate at Pearse Station area instead,.. and never (or later) have to cross under the Liffey, to go to the Spencer Dock area?

This may at least, have the benefit of bringing Greater Dublin Area (GDA) passengers on the DART+ Southwest line, directly to the south city centre (without having to go to the northside, via the Phoenix Park Tunnel, or via a change onto Luas Red line, or southside via buses),..

and could add the benefit of - new DU rail stations in Christchurch, and St. Stephens Green. 

Inter-city travellers could then also have an easier, though indirect link, changing at Heuston Station, onto DART+ Southwest, DU, to the South City Centre area (but not saying that the planned DART+ Southwest link, to northside, via Phoenix Park Tunnel, could not also happen)...

Note the proposed Woodbrook station is planned to be open in early 2025 (according to local councillors in Shankill)

Williamstown is the townland that Blackrock College is located in.

Historically it was also a fisherman's village before the construction of the D&KR cut it off from the sea, this survives in the area across from the College and beside Martello tower. The wall at back of it was old sea wall:

Would make sense as an interconnection point given the level of development at time (if one looks at old maps on Geohive)

I think that as part of DART+ a few stations should be closed on the current line.

Kilbarrack - magnet for scumbags, only put up in the 70s, absolutely no point when Howth Junction is almost literally a stones throw away.

Bayside - I have never understood the point of this station. Howth Junction and Sutton both in close proximity. Also with the Howth branch line possibly becoming a shuttle service, less reason to keep it.

Clongriffin - no explanation needed. Sh/tty vanity project to serve a Celtic Tiger development that was never completed. The only real purpose for Clongriffin station is to serve as a magnet for local scumbags and to piss off passengers going to Portmarnock and Malahide with a pointless stop. Could possibility have some function if an airport spur is ever built, however.

Also the old Merrion station between Sidney Parade and Booterstown located just beside the level crossing should be reopened.

I won’t hold my breath on any of the above though.

Before any discussions about new station, they need to improve access to all current stations. The platforms are 200m long and, generally, can only be accessed from one point.

Killester is a prime example. A short 80m walk from the N4 bus (in red) to the Dart actually takes 450m (in green).

If that station was re-opened, the level-crossing would be closed for a lot longer than at present as it would have to remain closed for the entire time trains are stopped in the station. Seeing as it is already a contentious level-crossing, I suspect your 'a few people who live in the immediate area who want it re-opened' would quickly find themselves in a minority.

There may be a point re the ongoing development of Clongriffin, but the existence of the Kilbarrack and Bayside stations still seams absolutely pointless to me.

Kilbarrack as I’ve said is almost literally spitting distance from Howth Junction, you can actually see the platforms clearly if you look up the track. It attracts local gurriers like a magnet, hence why there’s always security guys there. Howth Junction is a similar trouble spot for gurriers, but at least it serves a solid purpose as a junction station. It should be nuked.

There is no raison d'être for Bayside at all. It’s a few minutes walk from both Howth Junction and Sutton, it’s a small island platform station on a very short line that is probably going to be reduced to a shuttle service anyway. Get rid of it and keep the line as two stops.

Finally, I see the reopening of Merrion as imperative. It was one of the original stations on the Dublin-Kingstown line and it has a fine station building that is just left there to rot. The immediate area is also growing, with more hotels, shops and housing going up the past few years. With the level crossing issues being amended I see no reason why it shouldn’t be reopened. Much better to actually have a station there that’s being used than nothing, at the very least.