Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

If you base your post on a limited definition of culture, then you are correct. If you take a wider approach to culture, then there are loads of things, from Sunday retail hours, to traffic lights, to road markings that are different in the UK and/or Northern Ireland than Ireland. University entry systems, grammar schools, religious education, pipe bands, health services, etc. etc. All of those are part of the culture and identity of the place.

It is completely disingenuous to suggest that there are no cultural differences.

That is why I argue for reform of the GFA to reduce the power of the sectarian parties.

Yes, and that might work. On the other hand, if we're honest, it might not.

There's a challenge here. The GFA was negotiated with buy-in from most of the parties in NI. The DUP didn't buy in but, at the time, they played second fiddle to the OUP, so their opposition wasn't fatal. If we're now talking about reforming the GFA to reduce the power of the sectarian parties, are we undertaking that reform, once again, with buy-in from the parties, or over their opposition? If you include both DUP and SF in the category of "sectarian parties", it seems unlikely that you will get buy-in from them on reforms that are expressly designed to disempower them. On the other hand, if you bull ahead without their buy-in and over their protests, how likely is it that a revised GFA which is rejected by the dominant parties on both sides of the divide is going to be workable, or to make NI work?

I'm not out of sympathy with your objective of making the institutions more durable and resilient by reducing the wrecking powers of the parties. It's just that, realistically, how we get from here to there is not at all clear. And I fear that this problem may be a manifestation of the fundamentally unworkable nature of NI itself.

It's much easier to point to problems like this than to come up with solutions to them, I admit. But I do have a sense that, in the long term, the way forward for the people of Northern Ireland is likely to involve, well, not having Northern Ireland.

You dont get it or purposely not answering. All of Ireland was in the union. It was partitioned when most wanted to leave.

So if Scotland vote to leave. Should somebody search for a boundary line they can draw to give unionts a majority and keep that part in the union and let the rest leave? Should Scotland be partitioned up like Ireland was in 1921 should the majority want to leave. Yes or no?

Where we differ is that while you may believe that such an arrangement would not have buy-in from the two sectarian parties (and I accept that those turkeys won't want to vote for Christmas as the end to the arrangements reduces their power), the Alliance, UUP and SDLP would be likely to support them and with the two governments fully behind it, the onus would squarely be on the two to demonstrate that they don't rely on sectarian bases for strength.

So I will ask again as you are the one suggesting I don’t understand culture and identity

“So I think you are telling us that the young lad in Liverpool, Belfast, Dublin and Cardiff are all equally culturally Irish? There different experiences mean nothing culturally and identity-wise? Or maybe you can define how they are culturally different?”

can you answer? - it’s ok to agree with me

In what respect?

The only thing not tolerated is beligerent, triumphalist loyalism.

Everything else is.

We saw in Rosnowlagh that once you behave then you can parade and play away and nobody bats an eye.

We saw when the DUP got their bung from the Tories that there is zero tolerance for Unionist/Loyalist beligerence and religious fundamentalism in the UK too..

Who remembers 'F* The DUP' badges and placards.

Design a system that sidelines the most electorally popular, democratically elected parties?

I think there is a name for that.

I have never suggested partitioning Scotland, neither have I suggested partitioning Northern Ireland.

We are where we are after a century of history.

You have long called on the two governments to go over the DUP's head on issues like the Protocol because it serves your interest. Now when I call for the two governments to go over both sectarian parties' heads in the interest of the people of Northern Ireland, you object because it doesn't serve your interest.

Plain to see.

And the GFA is an international agreement concluded by two sovereign elected governments. Changing it to get rid of the sectarian vetoes is within their remit too.

I am for the reducing of the power of parties to hold Stormont to ransom. We had one sectarian party who held it to ransom for 3 years and another who may yet emulate them. They need to be stopped from doing that.

It is only the two main sectarian parties who have held Stormont to ransom. There were clear sectarian motives in Sinn Fein's actions.

I don't think you understand the language you use.

You'll be telling us next the Greens walked out of coalition government for sectarian reasons. 😁