Tour de France 2023 ***spoilers*** Warning in OP

Spare a thought for the rest of us who then have to read the rantings of people absolutely obsessed with Cav on boards.ie

If there's a silver lining to a rider crashing out of the Tour, its that we won't have to endure that for another two weeks.

Roglic was the difference last year. He did a great job of baiting Pog and forcing him to burn his matches. Pog is too cute for that this year. He's already won 2 TDF pretty much without a team, and only lost last year because Jumbo got their tactics spot on. Ving burned a lot of matches getting the lead and then burned even more doing trojan work on the Tourmalet. With the team doing the work he can go toe to toe but on his own, Tadej is stronger.

It's still a long way to Paris but unless Jumbo come up with a better plan than Sky-train-lite it's hard to see how Jonas gets the upper hand. Maybe get Kuss away up the road and force UAEs hand, but I don't think Kuss has what it takes to pose a serious threat to GC

I don't think Kuss will come into play like that. In order for him to get up the road and start clawing back serious time, it would need to be a mountain stage and I can't imagine J-V would expose Vingo by letting such a key domestique disappear. And even if Kuss did get into contention, I don't think he's got the temperament to carry it through to the end.

I actually thought Kuss looked a little sub-par yesterday and it was difficult to see what exactly JV were at. The pace wasn't high enough to dislodge the likes of Pidcock or assorted Yateseses let alone Pog, and they were never going to catch the front of the race. He could probably have had the same impact riding a little slower and possibly been of more use to Vingo at the end when Pog attacked.

On the Granon stage maybe, but Jonas also put a minute in Pog on Hautacam, and beat him in the ITT handily, despite sitting up at the end. He also dropped Pog on Ventoux in 2021. I like Pog, but I really don't feel Jonas gets due credit for how good he is!

Jonas was 2nd in 2021 though. Again, I'd come back to it not being just the Granon stage - there was also Hautacam and the ITT after Rog had left.

I'm really not sure on Remco - first job is he has to consistently finish GT's. As for Bernal, I'm not sure he ever got back to his pre-back injury level before the crash.

In fairness to Bernal, he’s only really back competing this year, he still has time in his favour to get back up to speed.

But I have to agree that I don’t see him winning a big GT any time soon, but I’d almost put that down to being part of ineos as well….

Irrespective of Vings credentials coming into the race last year, Pog was taking it nice and handy, 2 time champ with a smile on his face, knowing he was the best there. JVs attacks and Vings hunger really unsettled him and he was beaten psychologically on the Granon. He's a different beast this year. He spent months in Tenerife in high temperatures and altitude. He was utterly unbeatable until his crash and that lay up might even stand to him.

He also potentially benefited from the shortening of the stage(s) that year too. He's still only 26 though, and it's really amazing he's back at this level at all given his injuries.

The way things are going, the next big thing is probably some junior we've never heard of yet!

I get all the dislike for Ineos with their super teams back a while ago. You don't see the same dislike for Jumbo Visma which is odd as they are just like Ineos was a few years ago, or even worse.

And Ratcliffe being an insufferable cnut as well