Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

I recall in 2017-2018, there was a factory in Birkenhead that was supposed to close but the locals were as pro-Brexit as they were before the referendum. It does feel like things are gradually getting worse here.

Exactly.

It struck me quite quickly when I landed here on the 16th March 2011 that this seemed to be a much more individualistic country than Ireland. While this can bring benefits, it also made the Brexit campaign much uglier than it really needed to be. The (mercifully small) cohort of Brexiters I had to interact with showed very little understanding of how the EU worked, the intricacies of Britain's relationship with it or even how UK government works (or doesn't).

Nowhere proves this more than the fishing fiasco. Britain exports two thirds of its catch to Europe while fishing accounts for 0.03% of the UK's economic output. Of course, nobody complained about one Nigel Farage having attended a single EU fisheries meeting out of 43, an attendance record of less than 2.5%.

The Leave campaign was sold on telling disparate demographics with diverging interests that they'd get what they wanted by voting Leave even if the objectives were mutually exclusive such as friends of my aunts being fed up of Indians and a former Indian colleague wanting his family to be able to move over.

I'm not even surprised any more that various sectors are sniffing around for special opt-outs from Brexit. It characterises the UK's attitude to the continent better than any other example but it's ultimately pathetic and futile. No more so than Tim Martin and Bruce Dickinson just assuming that hospitality staff and musicians respectively could continue to enjoy free movement because consequences are for lesser people.

I never got that.

A lot of British celebrities seem to be a bit older so it makes sense that a lot of them would be Brexiters or at least open to it. The media elites thing was just another right wing trope designed to mask the fact that Brexit was a stupid idea and no serious analyst would treat it otherwise.

I think it was the fantasy of telling the Eurocrats where to where to stick their red tape and dictats while the UK cut swashbuckling deals all over the world. Of course, Dyson and Rees-Mogg moved their business interests sharply and John Redwood went on to advise investors not to invest in the UK.

Michael Caine said what he said knowing full well that he'd keep a luxurious lifestyle no matter what. Same for John Cleese. My aunt owns a property portfolio here in London and she was harping on and on about Turkey joining and that "We'll survive".

The thing I can't get over is the complete lack of thinking of long term self interest. If you're 60, say and the referendum is looming, surely you'd want to vote for what's best for the country, particularly that NHS you're likely to need soon which currently has over 100,000 vacancies and is expected to have almost 250,000 in the middle of next decade.

But, no. Flag waving and owning the remoaners has overtaken sensible thought and pragmatism and here we are.

I would expect them to keep using the NHS to be honest. They feel like they've paid enough for it so why waste money on expensive private premiums at their stage of life.

Whether or not the country is circling the drain depends on one's perspective. Anyone here in the bottom 20% of earners or thereabout is probably screwed. I remember reading once that the poorest Irish people are significantly better off (over 60%) than their English counterparts:

I've just ballsed up an application for a position in Paris but I've seen another in Amsterdam. I think anyone here who doesn't own a property or have family ties would be wise to consider relocation. I just don't see things getting any better for a long time, if ever they do. Starmer's just got nothing of interest IMO.