Civil service panels - can 2 run concurrently for same grade in same department?

BlueTaba · 04-07-2023 6:00pm #1

Hi, does anyone know if 2 panels run alongside each other? For example an EO internal promotion panel was formed in 2022, there are still some people on it. Then a new 2023 internal promotion ran of which the results are due to be released in the next couple weeks so theoretically, someone could be on both. Would the old panel still run and would it take priority over the new one?

wench · 06-07-2023 3:09pm

There can be an internal and an external running simultaneously, but I've never heard of two internal ones doing it.

From what I've seen, once the new panel is established, that becomes the active panel, and the old one expires.

Unplaced candidates from the old one don't carry over.

BlueTaba · 06-07-2023 6:37pm

Hi Wench, thanks for the reply. That's my understanding of it also but this person is adamant that the old panel will remain in place and offers will go to it first. Same department and same grade promotion so its not 2 separate panels running.

EchoIndia · 06-07-2023 6:43pm

When a competition is being run, it is usually stated how the long the panel to be formed will be valid for. In my experience, any existing internal panel was usually cleared before the new one was established, to avoid the very issue of people having to re-compete when they had already been placed on a panel. However if the panel's expiry date is reached and there are still people on it, it falls, AFAIK. If its life were just extended, that would place people not on it and who wanted the opportunity to compete at a disadvantage.

wench · 06-07-2023 6:52pm

From an EO comp circular (12/2022):

Qualification and placement on a panel is not a guarantee of appointment to a position. Candidates not appointed at the expiry of the panel, will have no claim to promotion thereafter because of having been on the panel(s).

and from the same doc

This panel may remain in place up to 30 June 2024 or until such time as a new panel is in place.

which rules out them both being active together

BlueTaba · 06-07-2023 9:57pm

Great advice there thanks, new panel due to be announced in next week or two so case of wait til announced then seek clarification from HR. I can't see how the old panel would take priority over a new one but will see how its worded.

doc22 · 06-07-2023 10:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815671#Comment_120815671

That's how it works normally a panel will last for say two years after which it would be replaced with a new panel, if a new panel isn't in place the old one can be extended. Two panels run concurently were the old panel is exhausted for a given location(most likely Dublin) and the department it such cases would pull from the new panel. But old panel will take priority until it's expiry(likely two years from creation)

BlueTaba · 06-07-2023 10:27pm

Ah, so it's possible that a new panel will be put in place even though old one not extinguished. So any jobs created after the new panel put in place will have to be offered to old panel first. So, in theory, someone who is, for example, number 1 on old panel but number 20 on new panel could be offered a post before number 1 on new panel even though the job didn't exist before new panel created?

TaurenDruid · 06-07-2023 10:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815807#Comment_120815807

No. Re-read wench's post and the quoted circulars. The old panel expires when the new one comes into force. Anyone still on the old panel will not be promoted off the old panel.

doc22 · 06-07-2023 11:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815930#Comment_120815930

That's for the interdepartmental comp ran by PAS not the internal ones ran by departments, PAS won't be starting a new one till that one is close to or is near expired. Even for recent PAS HEO/AP comps existing panels had priority over new panels till their expiry. Internal Panels are similary ran in my experience....

gladerunner · 10-07-2023 8:35am

This process is confusing me also.

I am currently on a panel that's due to expire in January 2024. I am also on a differing panel ( same grade ) which is set to expire in September 25. Will they continue to pull from the Jan 24 panel i presume ? and leave the newer panel until that all locations have been chosen

TaurenDruid · 10-07-2023 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816037#Comment_120816037

We're saying the same thing? If a new panel is set up, it will not come into force until the existing panel reaches its announced end date. Above, BlueTaba says: "So any jobs created after the new panel put in place will have to be offered to old panel first," which is only correct if there's an end-date on the existing panel and it's still in force. There should always be an end-date in place or... well, shenanigans ensue.

Pogue eile · 10-07-2023 1:25pm

I don't see why two panels cant run together as long as the candidates on the older panel get first refusal.

Imagine for arguments sake that there is only one person on the old panel and they are on sick leave or secondment or have refused a certain location, it is really practical that the entire promotion process be held up until the panel expires?

I was on a panel once before that was held up for over 6 months because the next in line was on a secondment, people had their promotions delayed by 6 months and more, costing them literally thousands of euro.

TaurenDruid · 10-07-2023 2:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829699#Comment_120829699

Your first paragraph and second paragraph directly contradict each other? You're saying on the one hand the old panel should remain until it's all used up; but also that waiting on the old panel to be used up shouldn't delay promotions for the new panel.

Anyone on sick leave or secondment should still be offered the promotion (subject to their sick leave being within norms). Someone refusing a promotion has refused the promotion - full stop. They're done. Next, please.

"Is it really practical that the entire promotion process be held up until the panel expires?"

I don't know what you mean. It isn't held up. If there are five people left on the panel and four vacancies and the panel is due to expire on the 31st August, four promotions get made now. If another arises before 31st August, person 5 gets promoted and the new panel comes into effect. If no more promotions arise before 31st August, being the previously advertised expiration date, tough luck, Bob, the panel has expired, hopefully you're highly placed on the new panel.

I was on a panel once before that was held up for over 6 months because the next in line was on a secondment, people had their promotions delayed by 6 months and more, costing them literally thousands of euro.

Jebus, really? This is why we have unions, to be honest.

Pogue eile · 10-07-2023 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830395#Comment_120830395

Where competitions are for multiple locations it frequently ends up with them unable to fill vacancies in some locations so if everyone remining on Panel A has turned it down, then why should they be able to offer it to Panel B?

It doesn't occur as frequently as it did previously because they have changed how they form the panels but when it was simply 'Dublin' and 'Other locations' it happened all the time.

It was an Inter-D panel and I think his parent department were trying to wrangle something to keep him. He actually ended up getting abusive calls etc from people accusing him of denying them of their promotion!

TaurenDruid · 10-07-2023 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830465#Comment_120830465

so if everyone remining on Panel A has turned it down, then why should they be able to offer it to Panel B?

Why shouldn't they be able to offer it to panel B in that case? If you refuse an appointment, that's it, you're done (at least, on any panel I've seen or participated in!) If everyone turns it down, the panel has expired, so panel B can commence.

Pogue eile · 10-07-2023 4:45pm

Maybe it has changed but certainly on old panels you could turn down an offer and still remain on the panel for other locations. Probably varies from Department to Department as well.

TaurenDruid · 10-07-2023 5:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830995#Comment_120830995

It may do. But hey, having one unified personnel body for the whole civil service, whether it's called the NSSO or PeoplePoint, will surely mean there'll be consistency across the whole gamut of departments and organisations... any day now... 😀

Kirbi · 11-07-2023 2:00pm

I've never seen the situation you describe PogueEile, in over 10 years (and across a few organisations), so I imagine that either it's only done in select organisations or maybe it's falling out of favour over time (or as dPER/PAS issue guidance on best practice).

I know you're messing Tauren, but I'll mention that NSSO have no part in giving recruitment guidance (just in case).

Civil service panels - can 2 run concurrently for same grade in same department?

Answers