Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Prices were reasnobly stable from 18 to 20 and appeared to be plateauing. The response to covid by gov and CB's put prices back on steroids, inflation as a result of this response plus relaxing credit conditions and increased subsidies for purchasing is ensuring the bomb goes off like cluster bomb among the public rather than a concentrated explosion in the financial sector

I don't think this is correct, the CBI didnt change the rules untill the end of last year and they are still quite restrictive

what subsides? the HTB scheme, this has been there a while but did go from like a cap of 20k to 30k.

the real issue with COVID is it became near impossible to sell or buy

inflation and housing.... well new builds have certainly inflated

Makes you wonder, doesn't it....

There is plenty to go round, some just don't want to share

and that is way over the odds for the house

and everywhere else

Its one thing to not accept the status quo and work to reform the system (ie fix the housing market in this thread/Ireland's context).

Its another to willfully ignore facts in reality, the way our current government has - taking in 100,000 migrants a year, when theres already a severe shortage of housing in the country. At some stage the entirely logical/reasonable question of "where are these people going to live" has to be asked, because housing right now is very much a limited resource in the country.

It'd be different if the state was first building tens of thousands of housing units to house anyone who needed it (migrant or otherwise), and then importing large numbers of people. Thats a debate that could be had reasonably, with lots of arguments for/against. But doing it this way instead, importing the people before having the housing, just fails everyone.

I agree that the advice to start a new rent in Dublin with sky-high rents and then having kids is also terrible. I had a 3-year contract when I had my first kid, so I could count on it for the medium term.

But if the alternative is to get into a mortgage that the bank only considers safe as long as both work and have no kids, I wouldn't pick either. I would definitely leave, which I easily can, as I pointed out in my post. If I was truly trapped in Dublin and did not have a long-term rental stability, I would probably buy whatever I can just to have stability, but I would feel very uneasy getting into a mortgage with two salaries and no kids, and then shortly after dropping to 1 salary or relying on the expensive (and fully-booked) Crèche system.

Accepting or defying the status quo of a society is one thing. Trying to deny the reality of nature is entirely another. Disenfranchisement of women, slavery or apartheid governance of a state are all, dare I say it, social constructs that exist only because a given society wanted them to exist for any number of reasons. The finite supply of resources or the inherent instinct of human beings to act in their own self-interest are facts of nature.  

Tax is the redistribution of resources, generally by a state. It doesn’t create resources in and of itself.

Taxes have existed for as long as there has been a state, and they were more often than not used to pay for wars. The words “for the greater good” makes me shiver, I’m afraid to say.  

I don’t know what you mean by “you are the state.” 

tax once went into someone pocket

now due to progress, for the greater good yeah

against what you would describe as self interest

you are part of the state, ye know a human group working for a commonish goal

can you explain why the greater good makes you shudder

I pay 2100 in rent. This place would easily be worth ~600k currently. The places I am looking for go around 500k, non green mortgage, and I plan to fix for 3-5 years (so I go back to variable on the way down of the inverted yield curve of Germany government bonds). That's 450k in debt, at 4.8% interest, that's 21600 per year or around 64800 in 3 years. Obviously slightly less because of the decrease in principal.

Even for me, this is getting wildly off topic...

If you believe the state to be a benevolent entity then I think I will not dissuade you. The state squandered massive quantities of resources each and every year, whilst perpetuating the problems that ostensibly such expenditure is meant to resolve. If you believe that voting in a TD every five years makes you a part of the state, then far be it from me to tell you otherwise.

"Thre greater good" is redolent of Communism, and God help any soul who thinks that that is a good idea.

you are the one going a bit wild here

this is socialism not communism, which is just paired back

you are the state, you can take part in it or not

you have benefited from this socialism

do you pay tax?