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Sound of freedom

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,131 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    What kind of reporting do you expect? Do people really need a film to be made in order to know this goes on in the world.

    The problem people has is that Caviezel has embraced what is possibly the dumbest conspiracy theory (and that's saying something), Qanon is basically "everyone I don't like is a pedo". Now anyone who criticizes Caviezel will be questioned about why they are against child trafficking and it's like a self fulfilling prophecy for Qanon where people who don't buy everything are part of the conspiracy. At the root of all this is that no one really gives a crap about children, it's just a tool to to get at the other team.

    I could be cynical and say why a staunch Catholic like Caviezel and other religious groups wants to draw attention to other areas of child abuse when I'm sure they could point their resources closer to home.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    I notice that, two pages in, we've still not seen any discussion about whether the film is any good as an action film if you set aside the subject matter.

    Yes, this is somewhat tacky but OTOH if you want to seriously raise awareness about child trafficking something along the lines of documentary is more likely to change minds. This strikes me as agitprop, which will be part of the reason its distribution will be somewhat limited - if it's been made with a Christian/Conservative/Qanon audience in mind, it's going to have limited reach beyond that - unless the action aspects of the film are really good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    You follow Jordan Peterson yet you claim in all seriousness that you never heard of Qanon till it was mentioned in this very thread?



  • Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330


    You liked pizzagate to qanon so clearly you don't know what it means either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    Are you claiming that there's no relation between these two thoroughly debunked conspiracy theories?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,131 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    It's actually supposed to be a good film, but Caviezel's involvement would put me of it. I know Hollywood is full of morons, but I've been following Qanon since the early days and it is in a completely different leaague.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Of course I'm not saying that. You definitely need to reread my post.

    The mainstream media isn't reporting on what? Child trafficking or the movie? Because trafficking is absolutely reported here, and would suggest you disconnect from the US centric bubble. Because while not constantly in the news trafficking is a hot topic given its a problem as one goes eastwards across the continent.

    While WRT the movie, by all accounts it's a tiny indie movie that made a small splash on the US box office through the repute of its finances and main star. The chattering classes latching onto the context from which it has been spawned - which can't be ignored given what is proposed by the conspiracies. But Why would or should it receive anymore coverage than other Indies doing well?

    And no, I don't have antagonism towards Christianity and God, don't try to reframe the objections or views here. The criticism levelled has been entirely been at the star and the (let's charitably call them) political beliefs of the those behind the film; which are yes, American Christian Conservatives whose practises can be less than Christian, TBH; I've worked with plenty of bible belt Christians and as individuals they're fine - their political reps less so.

    But these are beliefs that absolutely won't have much translation into international markets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,972 ✭✭✭✭gmisk




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Well, this is the thing - it's so entrenched in Culture War Tedium that it doesn't seem straightforward to get any detailed commentary on it as an action film, which realistically is the only way anyone not suffering from severe internet poisoning is going to watch it.

    Which makes me think it's probably alright in a 6/10 sort of way, but tbh the 6/10 action film output from the US isn't high on my list to begin with, so adding Qanon bollox doesn't exactly help...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Well true. The movie has been corrupted by the whole context around it, but given the studio and talent involved - and the trailer itself, to watch it - I don't think John Wick, or even Liam Neeson, need worry too much and best case is as you say, a 6/10 movie. It all looks about one step below Netflix's action flicks, just with a religious throughline.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Its basically a hybrid of pyramid scheme and marketing excercise for the creators.

    Wrapped in a very flimsy premise of being a movie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,972 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    What are you on about? It doesn't....the article you linked literally mentioned some hashtags and Instagram being used for underage pictures etc.

    Pizzagate was a load of nonsense...

    Literally it began with the below

    "The allegation, which is false, is that Hillary and Bill Clinton used the Comet Ping Pong pizza restaurant in Washington, D.C., as a front for a pedophile sex ring; the back room was supposedly used for kidnapping and trafficking children."

    So yeah "pizzagate was very real"...ffs wise up.


    The article you linked doesn't overlap at all bar mentioning underage kids etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,131 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Us sheep will never achieve the levels of mental gymnastics involved to get this.

    This is one problem that will come from Sound of Freedom, people of a certain bent will use it to prey on people. It will start of with the obvious disgust towards child trafficking, then why isn't everyone outraged and then it's the tinfoil rabbit hole.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    The harsh tags used were cheese pizza = CP. You didn't read what was posted. For some warped reason you want to block your mind from the truth. Why are you challenging me for bringing to your attending that The Washington Post exposed the whole thing earlier this year. Are you calling them liars and conspiracy theorists? Even META admitted they failed? What motivates you to defend something that?

    Go and educate yourself before talking out your fundament.

    Instagram has emerged as the most important platform for buyers and sellers of underage sex content, according to investigations from The Wall Street Journal, Stanford Internet Observatory, and the University of Massachusetts Amherst (UMass) Rescue Lab.


    Instagram Connects Vast Pedophile Network

    The Meta unit’s systems for fostering communities have guided users to child-sex content; company says it is improving internal controls



    The WSJ reported that Instagram was so ineffective at stopping pedophile rings from forming that it would sometimes display a pop-up screen when users searched for known abusive content, warning users that “these results may contain images of child sexual abuse." Users could then choose to "see results anyway" or "get resources" regarding the harms of consumption of abusive content.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Ah the "educate yourself" trope, which involves absolutely no education and just conspiracy.

    Exactly what this "movie" is aiming for.

    #BuyTickets



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,972 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Ah yeah I am done with that poster, you can't really reason with someone who has gone so far down the rabbit hole, it's quite sad really.

    I knew it wouldn't be long before a line like the below was wheeled out

    "What motivates you to defend something that?"

    Paedophiles and similar scumbags using Instagram to communicate is grim and social media companies need to do far far more. But that isn't what pizzagate is.... anyyyyyway sure I am talking out of my "fundament"...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp



    Pizzagate was just another aspect of the new narrative of the conservative movement in the US: they know same sex marriage is popular, abortion too and progressive politics in general - so these drums have increasingly become hollow sources of attack. instead it's all Maude Flanders stuff, scaremongering and histrionics about threats to children however they can fashion it. Drag shows, sex or gender ed books, paedos around the corner ... and the Deep State are probably involved. They've found the one emotive issue they think they can tap to dog-whistle their way into the hearts and minds of what remains of a very Fundamentalist branch of Christianity over there. Just watch a CPAC to see it in action; the Handmaid's Tale isn't that much of a stretch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,716 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    You're taking the hashtag mentioning pizza, and thinking that is a connection to Pizzagate. It's not. Pizzagate was specifically the attempt to smear high ranking dems as belonging to a pedo ring run through the Comet Ping Pong Pizzeria.

    You may as well be trying to connect water boarding with watergate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    You won't find the Qanon, Pizzagate mob going after Andrew Tate.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 31,716 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    yeah indeed, and it's both new-ish, but also quite old... the "our enemies are not just people with different ideologies or points of view - they're also animals, evil pedophiles and rapists" trope has been around as long as there's been any framwork of an 'us v them'. It's what rising nazi propaganda said about Jews in 1923, and it's what Trump said of immigrants at the southern border at two key moments in 2015 and 2018, and of course it's what was said of the dems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,673 ✭✭✭flasher0030




  • Registered Users Posts: 86,701 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Dana White of UFC telling everyone to watch



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Mod note: This is a divisive topic but accusing other posters of defending child trafficking is not acceptable, not to mention the deeply unhelpful tactic of constantly trying to shift the goal posts of a well-defined and widely-agreed term. Any more of this will result in a thread ban.

    Post edited by johnny_ultimate on


  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭furyen


    Anyone know how I can watch this in Ireland, I will be happy to pay for and support this movie? hopefully it will wake more people up to the real world around them



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Fe1erere


    I'm interested in the subject matter of the movie, it's not a topic often covered in the media in spite of the harrowing nature of the crimes. An attack on the most vulnerable people in society, our children.

    The money in the human/child trafficking industry is truly mind bending and a spotlight on this subject is very much welcome in my view, particularly from people on the front lines who have dedicated their lives to protecting the victims of these dire circumstances.

    I listened to the interviews of Tim Ballard and following on, I read material on "OUR" organisation. I think his beliefs give him strength to face the darkest sides of humanity. For people knocking his efforts, he's saving the lives of those who need it most.

    From a political perspective, I think people on the "left" or those who support the idea of open borders face a problem in their policy. Undocumented human trafficking of vulnerable persons. It's an unintended consequence of open border policy, that's the reality and a very uncomfortable truth for those with their blue flag pinned to the mast.

    For those with a red flag, this appears to be an opportunity to lord over the "left" on the merits of border control and one of the dangers of open border policy, sex slavery and human trafficking. In my view, that is why this movie strikes a political nerve.

    I hope that people have the courage to accept that the colour of their "flag" does not determine the correctness of their position. That there is nuance on both sides of the political divide and that tribalism should not eclipse critical thinking and fair mindedness.

    We should strive to avoid dehumanizing persons with opposing political views. To accept that we are not always 100% correct. It serves no purpose other than to deepen divide in society and feed our egos.

    If people have the courage to welcome criticism, we can come together and find middle ground to combat the type of issue this movie raises.

    Peace out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭santana75


    You most definitely have antagonism towards Christianity and so called christian conservatives, it oozes out of every word of your post. Your words and attitude are not friendly or in any way open to this movie or topic. Youre also engaging in a degree of gas lighting in relation to sex trafficking and the main stream medias lack of coverage of this topic. I picked up yesteredays newspaper as a sort of litmus test and there was not one mention of child sex trafficking and id guess its the same today and across the board with the mainstream media. Multiple pages on RTE though, which speaks volumes as to whats a priority to those reporting the news. And also let me point something out:

    "By all accounts its a tiny indie movie that made a small splash on the US box office through the repute of its finances and main star". You deliberately used words like "Tiny" and "Small splash" as a way to belittle the film in a passive aggressive manner. You're definitely attempting to attack this film and those behind its making. Why? Because of their Christian beliefs? I mean if this film had a "Woke" ideology at its core would you be so antagonistic towards it? Something tells me the answer to that is no. I think you should sit down and watch the film first before you make any judgements, and assess it on its own merits and nothing else.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Bit rich to say "you should shut up and watch the film before opining on it" when it's not been released outside the US, so odds are good most posting here haven't had any opportunity to watch it...

    And that's about as much useful comment as is possible here without stepping on any of the culture war bait that's been strewn about the place.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Mod note: Warning issued. Please keep the conversation civil and refrain from personal attacks on other posters.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Oh hang on a second: first you try to disparage me and insinuate I wanna supress the topic of sex trafficking - so now you pivot to trying to interrogate my thoughts on religion? You're really intent on having a go, and seems you have me all worked out; in which case my part in this conversation seems somewhat redundant - given the ample strawman you've now built for yourself.

    Trying to parse my words into some kind of angry bias is bullshít, to be blunt; Sound of Freedom by any reasonable regard in Hollywood circles is a tiny indie movie (budget approx. $15 million), and has made a small splash - but as commentators have pointed out will probably have a long tail that can chip away an ongoing box-office take. But its footprint remains small: $41 million isn't big bucks. But ye gods at trying to read into my choice of single words.

    Of course, were you to actually ask instead of presume my opinions, then I'd say that by way of example I can't stand the latter-day movies of Adam McKay or Michael Moore from fadó; polemics where yes Santana I absolutely hate "woke" movies that try to beat me over the head like I'm a moron who doesn't get that (say) Climate Change Be Bad. But if Hollywood Liberalism has taken up a cause to patronise the rest of us? It must be a day ending in Y.

    I picked up yesteredays newspaper as a sort of litmus test and there was not one mention of child sex trafficking and id guess its the same today and across the board with the mainstream media.

    So because on one day, or one week this item isn't covered, you call disgrace and decry the issue as insufficiently covered? Cos I'd ask to look again: maybe you were looking for sex trafficking specifically, but you obviously missed the ongoing fallout from the latest tragedy on the Mediteranean, and the scores of souls dead or lost who were being trafficked into Europe. You can speculate their end-point had they arrived in Greece or Italy, but trafficking & migration is possibly the biggest cross-continental issue going on in Europe right now. Whole governments have been elected on this issue from Italy to the UK: The news might not speak to sex trafficking specifically but it's right there, on a constant basis. We're relatively insulated from the topic in Ireland.

    Oh. I'll concede one aspect to your comments about my views on religion: I absolute have no time for American Christian Conservatives, because by their own deed and viewpoints they have more in common with the Taliban than they do with the teaching of Christ, and the broad pantheon of christian faiths over this side of the Atlantic. Any variation of Christianitiy that espouses the WEalth Bible has no right to call itself Christian. Again had you asked instead of presumed, I'd have said that I maintain a great degree of respect for true Christians who live by the words they cherish; peace & love is not a bad goal to strive for after all.

    But like I said, at this stage you're just having a go so I'm sceptical we'll meet back in the middle; I think the movie looks shíte, the star & makers dubious, and gonna leave it at that. Adios.



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