Is Fórsa Trade Union membership fees worth it for Public sector employees

lisabiscuit · 16-09-2022 5:23pm

Ive been a member of the Union since I joined CS. I'm glad I did and will definitely stick with it. There's safety in numbers and with all this talk of them removing Garda Civilian Staff from the Civil Service I'm glad the union are fighting that battle and keeping us informed on how things are progressing. If it wasn't for the union we wouldn't have even know that's what Drew Harris is planning. We have no idea how our pay and conditions could be affected. I'm glad they are in my corner. That's how I feel about it anyway.

Dyr · 16-09-2022 6:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119627005#Comment_119627005

Unite is a British union with an Irish branch, nothing more.

Dyr · 16-09-2022 6:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626163#Comment_119626163

What the public sector should be grateful for is the Irish government being willing to have the taxpayer pay over the odds for **** services because it's an easier option than bad publicity for a minister

KJK1LL3R · 17-09-2022 12:11pm

"The general subscription rate for 2022 is 0.8% of basic salary up to a maximum of €399.34 (monthly rate €33.28 ) i.e. a salary max of €49,918."

It seems like the subscription fees are better value to the higher salary employees so maybe it might make more financial sense to join when one has worked their way up the ranks a bit.

JoeSexton · 19-09-2022 2:23pm

The power of the union to negotiate better conditions for workers is directly proportional to the number of workers who join the union. From a purely game theoretical point of view, if the majority of workers are in the union, then you're better off leaving it because you will get all of the benefits without any of the cost. It is undoubtedly a selfish act though, taking advantage of the goodwill of others.

BrianD3 · 19-09-2022 6:35pm

I was in the public service for many years and paid thousands in union contributions. I had two issues where I requested union assistance and they were of no help.

First issue was when I was assigned the duties of someone 2-3 grades higher with no compensation or title. Second issue was when I was ordered back to the office a few months into the Covid pandemic (months before any vaccines approved) having worked successfully from home and in contravention of public health advice.

And on the topic of WFH, it has shown up the unions IMO. Many public servants who could WFH are back in the office 5 days per week and have been for months. Not a peep out of their unions. At this stage, I'm wondering if unions are actuallly anti wfh because it is a change to traditional working practices which includes union membership.

If I ever rejoin the public service, I will not be joining any union.

growleaves · 19-09-2022 6:48pm

There are useless and corrupt trade unions.

However I would say that on balance collective bargaining is better than going it alone. If you work for a corporation and you are not in a union it is you, as one person, versus an entity engaged in collective (corporate) bargaining.

When you get people who are against trade unionism on principle and proud of it I think that is naive assuming that person is not themselves a CEO, senior management or member of the ownership class.

Augme · 19-09-2022 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638765#Comment_119638765

I'm not a fan of the Union, and I think their performance when it comes to pay has been poor for a long time but the criticism of them above is wrong.

There's no legal basis for being able to work from home. Until there is the Unions have very little power in achieving much in that area. Wfh is currently the decision of the public body and if the employees don't like it, they need to stand up for themselves rather than hiding under their desks expecting the union to solve problem for them.

cokeiscrap · 19-09-2022 7:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119624263#Comment_119624263

All public service facilities should remove all Coca-Cola products from their canteens and vending areas.

This horrible company threatened all its employees with their jobs recently for voting overwhelmingly to take strike action after years of bullying and intimidation from senior management. Unfortunately the employees in Ballina Beverages went cowardly back to work and left the union in their droves.

Coca-Cola human rights policy states that ALL employees have the right to join or not to join a union without fear of reprisal, but this didn't happen in their Mayo manufacturing facility.

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/food-drink/spotlight-coca-cola

BrianD3 · 20-09-2022 6:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638910#Comment_119638910

There's no legal entitlement to pay increases (or to not having pay cuts) either which is why there is negotiation between employers and unions. If you criticise unions for their performance re: pay surely it is equally valid to criticise them for their performance re: achieving WFH arrangements (for those for whom WFH is feasible)

If there was a legal entitlement to WFH or pay rises the union would be irrelevant for both. Unions should come into their own in relation to issues which don't have a legal basis or at least not a clear cut one.

A prime example (happened to me) is if a junior staff member is assigned duties clearly above their grade without compensation because the employer won't fill senior vacancies. If the employee questions this, the employer points to their contract which lists "any other duties as required". What then? That is where the collective power of the union should provide support. In a non unionised,private sector envionment where you aren't handing a few hundred quid per year to a union, you just do what you're told assuming it is legal/safe etc.

tamara25 · 06-07-2023 1:43am

Im in a difficult situation at work regarding a transfer & the section I was put in. Would the union be able to help me here?

Augme · 06-07-2023 9:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811589#Comment_120811589

It depends on how good the union in your place of work is.

caviardreams · 06-07-2023 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811589#Comment_120811589

No harm in asking - that's what you pay your membership fees for. But depends on what the issue is really and whether there was any policy / procedure breached or flexibility on it

channelsurfer2 · 07-07-2023 10:41am

just my two cents but i agree with posters who say about the benefit of being in the union. Eventually if everyone decides not to be a member then no pay negotiations, no pension rights and no lump sum at retirement will be the result. DPER have for years being trying to erode the rights of civil and public servants and if it wasn't for the unions and its collective membership we would have been screwed over.

There is a crisis of membership in Forsa i do believe especially in the civil service where all the ancillary benefits such as dental, medical etc. have been eroded or the income scheme having doubled in price. But try and get the equivalent scheme on your own without the union and you will be paying a lot more and getting less for it. So each to their own to make their decision on the merits and demerits but me personally i would never not be in a union in the civil service anyway.

Flinty997 · 07-07-2023 12:45pm

My experience of unions have done very little in any place I've worked

TaurenDruid · 10-07-2023 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638765#Comment_119638765

This isn't borne out at all by the Civil Service Blended Working thread or the surveys that have been run. There's only a tiny number of CS employers where you have no WFH options.

TaurenDruid · 10-07-2023 1:39pm

You don't need a union. Until you actually do really need a union.

Sure, you'll get the collective bargaining benefits if you don't join - the "pay rises", the restoration of pre-Haddington Road terms and conditions, etc.

If you don't join, you miss out on access to some group schemes (some of which, to be fair, aren't that great). You'll also miss out on individual representation, should you need it - e.g., bullying, harrasment, discrimination, refused access to mobility, up to unfair dismissal, etc.

Note our current "pay rises" don't keep pace with inflation. We'll actually be somewhat worse off over the next year or so. If the public services unions were stronger, with more members, they'd have more bargaining power. Yes, freeloaders like thefallingman would also benefit, but them's the breaks.

Collective bargaining matters. I used to be in the bar trade. The bar union used to be really powerful, in Dublin at least, back in the 80s. Bar staff working in union houses got decent wages for what is a tough job with unsocial hours. I dunno what happened in the meantime but it seems the majority of pubs managed to buy off union staff, or something? Bar staff are now on not too much more than minimum wage. That's what happens when you don't have collective bargaining power.

And I say this as someone who thinks the public service unions are, in general, doing a fairly **** job over the past few years!

Flinty997 · 10-07-2023 1:52pm

From what I see, when you need a union they often have some conflict with some other bigger agenda and leave you hanging. Maybe others experiences have been different. There seems to slow decline in terms and conditions in recent years.

spark_tank · 10-07-2023 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829792#Comment_120829792

I don't think the Haddington Road agreement, or its restoration 9(!) years later is anything the Union can be proud of.

The pay 'rises' are way behind inflation. The government are running huge record surpluses and Forsa are 'negotiating' pay deals below inflation. I use the term 'negotiating' lightly because it seems to be all a charade, I can't see how we'd have done any worse over the last few years without the Union. There's no fight in Forsa.

We'll be told there's tax benefits in the budget again. Imagine a big private sector company telling it's employers that budgetary tax adjustment benefits will be considered in your pay negotiations! Laughable. Well not for the Civil Service/Forsa combo.

TaurenDruid · 10-07-2023 10:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120832427#Comment_120832427

Like I said - I think they've done a shite job over the past few years. I still wouldn't be without union membership, though. I've never needed it personally (though I've gotten decent enough advice and steers a couple of times), but I have known people who have needed it, and they were glad of it.

deirdremf · 10-07-2023 10:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626166#Comment_119626166

I bet you don't have your house insured either, or your car, because that would be the epitome of fear too, wouldn't it?

deirdremf · 10-07-2023 11:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120832427#Comment_120832427

In theory, I fully support joining a trade union, but one of the problems is that you don't have a choice of trade union, if you work in the public service the government tells you which trade union they recognise, and you can like it or lump it. And on top of that, in comparison to other unions Fórsa has a bit of a reputation as a yellow trade union.

Regarding deals on income protection etc, I wonder why our various trade unions don't come together and set up mutual schemes like exist in various European countries rather than working through private insurance companies?

Is Fórsa Trade Union membership fees worth it for Public sector employees

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