Jean Kleyn N/IQ

Thanks to twitter actually having a somewhat functional search capability it took seconds to find this that nearly verbatim post that match 'Ireland better not lose', like I claimed was going round regarding an extended squad decision during the 6 nations.

Now that we have some evidence, it might be timely to take a moment to reflect on 'unbridled biases' that might be feeding the conversation about Kleyn and the other players who have caused similar hyperbole over the last year.

Ah, good old moving of the goal posts:

Step 1: Imply a poster doesn't have any 'actual evidence'

Step 2: Poster provides 'actual evidence' that nearly word for word matches the original claim

Step 3: Respond with 'No, no... not that kind of evidence... provide me another type'

If you want to talk about 'unbridled biases' influencing this topic, I'm sure you feel it is completely coincidental that the vast majority of posters come from the same province who several weeks later still haven't gotten over the fact that a 5 cap Irish international was allowed to change their allegiance to their country of birth and the team they dreamed to play for as a child.

We've spoken about how little you can safely take from player and coach interviews. Even if we do take that he wasn't telling white lies in his comments.

1. From that January interview he didn't sound like a player bothered at all whether he played for Ireland again. If he was in discussions regarding switching to SA it is the exact kind of statement a player would make - they didn't lie but didn't box themselves into anything. It was a bunch of platitudes - 'I’m very much, if it happens, it happens'.
2. & 3. He has potentially completely blown up his life with this decision and might not even make the SA WC squad. He could lose his Munster contract (wouldnt be the first for an Irish player who gets capped elsewhere) or not be renewed in 2024 and have to move away from his new roots. It is very naïve to believe anyone makes a snap decision with that sort of impact to the life of their family in the time between the Irish extended squad selection and the SA squad announcement.

4. He just says he wouldn't make the first move, that doesn't negate most of the options of how he could have expressed wishes to switch. I'm sure he could make a similar very truthful statement that he never made the first move to become an Irish player originally. All international teams and unions are making outreach to potential players who could play for them by whatever means and plans rarely happen on short notice.

I really think you're ignoring the far more likely scenario that this was in the works well in advance of this summer.

Resorting to selective quoting me now 🤣

Look, Kleyn has gone to play for the team he dreamt of as a child and isn't coming back.

The next 4 months or so have the potential of being the most exciting in the history of Irish rugby. It is sad but if some want to they can continue to spend it pining over a player who has never been the smallest cog in this iteration of the Irish team, one that is number 1 in the world. Similar and including many of the same people who instead of supporting the Irish team and enjoying the victories in the middle of a grand slam, they lost the plot over an extended squad selection for a match against Italy.

I expect some borderline gleeful comments if we have a second row injury disaster but we are now where we are. The incredibly successful Farrell, POC etc have done what they see as the right thing for the team and might have even taken into account Kleyn's wishes and/or what they see as fairest on him - much like Healy where they could have capped them just to block them from playing elsewhere.

I'm glad this has it's own thread now so I don't have to avoid the Irish one. I can drop in every now and again and see the latest update on Kleyn from a few desperates who are acting like they were dumped by their partner who can do no wrong and just can't stop stalking their every move on social media.

RG Snyman gets in ahead of Kleyn on the bench this weekend. Impressive team.

There's an assumption by many that this means Kleyn will be forced to leave Ireland. I don't think that will be the case. The likelihood is that Snyman will move on at the end of his contract. He has extended once already, has had a fairly mixed time of it in Limerick and there's now significantly more money floating around SA than there was 6 years ago when he left.

That leaves a NIQ spot available and I'd assume Kleyn will avail of that for a 2 year deal. He might move on. I'm sure he'll have options now and his profile has improved (and the money on the table will too) but I don't think he's going to be prevented from signing if he wants to.

That’s a very loaded and emotive way of putting it. Is life that black and white for you? That somethings either complete truth or lie?

Can I ask what your evidence is? At the end of the day you’re just speculating to the contrary and accusing others of calling him a liar.

The truth is nobody knows what exactly went on and anybody commentating is just speculating. That’s what happens on a discussion board.