Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

I was living in the UK during the Thatcher years, and I distinctly remember hearing it discussed how the Tory strategy was (in part anyway) to screw over the bottom third of the voters to get the votes of the other two thirds. The poor were monstered by the press (single mothers and "dole scroungers" were favourite targets). It seems a zero-sum view of politics is a big part of any FPTP system, and in my own experience, many (not all, but many) "middle class" English people were happy to distance themselves from the "oiks" and the "chavs": they don't really care that the poor need food banks, to be honest.

<Speculative waffling begins here ...>

As for why so many Britons feel antipathy to the concept of the EU, I think it comes down to their sense of identity. We can all change opinions that don't really matter to us, but it's very hard for us to change our sense of identity, our sense of who we are. And to many English people in particular, their national mythology, their sense of identity, is rooted in a thousand years of war with European countries, especially France and Spain, the defeat of the Spanish Armada, Waterloo, Trafalgar, etc. ad nauseum, in being the originating country of the English language, in the Imperial measurement system, in a sense of national superiority because of Empire and their leading role in the Industrial Revolution, and in "winning" the second world war against Germany and Italy, and in a smug feeling that the "continentals" (like the Irish) are simply lesser mortals. Accepting parity of respect with other European identities was too big an ask for many English people. They need to feel better than everyone else and the EU threatens to take that away from them.

"We don't see the same thing with Ireland..." - absolutely, and not just in Ireland. The UK is anomalous among European countries in that it has managed to remain "undefeated" in a way that few other countries have managed. In some ways many EU countries have risen from the ashes of WW II, to forge new political systems, new identities, and a forward looking view. The UK were denied that opportunity to reset and rebuild. Except perhaps for the incredible work of the first post-war Labour government, the UK hasn't really changed that much, it really does seem to be trapped in the past, politically.

Many a true word said in jest.

Its the supermarkets in which even fairly run of the mill items, like nappies and sanitary products have security tags on them, that really portray the endemic poverty across so much of Britain.

Funny enough sanitary products are one of the most requested items at food banks.

Regular people with little money will spend it on food and have to do without everything else.

I've lived in poor parts of both countries but only in the UK have I met people with non drink/drug addicted people who had been to food banks or similar.

Would you see a documentary like this on DE, FR, ES, IT?

Because in the UK you can have a job and still need a food back. It noticeably different to here where outside of the housing problem anyone willing to work is doing well comparatively.

(Despite what CA/IMHO posters like to tell you 🤣)

The gap between rich and poor seems much bigger in Britain. The richest 5% (invariably toffs and Tories) are awash with cash and property whereas those in low paid jobs are really struggling and living from week to week.

You watch this video and you ask yourself how are the Tories constantly getting back into power.

Hopefully for the UK's sake that Labour wins the next GE but it will take decades to fix the UK after what the Tories have done.

First past the post is the worst named electoral system ever. There is no post, it's just a plurality, so if there's one seat and 4 candidates, you could theoretically win the seat with just over 25% of the votes cast, which In turn could represent only 50% of eligible voters.

The Tories win because the centrists and left split the vote between the Greens, Lib Dems and Labour, while Tories only have to beat the far right BNP style parties

An apt description is how the Tory's don't canvas in Liverpool because no one will vote for them, and Labour don't canvas there either because they don't have to. Meanwhile at local election level far right candidates fill the vacuum and will no doubt be part of deepening England's social divisions.

It will be interesting what the next great dragon to be vanquished will be after brexit. My feeling after my time in England is that the next great other will be the enemy within, different cultures etc...

I always see a problem with 'visas for specific jobs' as follows....

Alicja might be willing and eager to work as a waitress, but if her boyfriend Jakub can't get a visa because he's a wannabe mechanic, and her sister has a similar problem, and the parents are worried that they won't be able to visit her without hassle - that could put the kybosh on the whole travel plan. Especially with 26 other countries to choose from.

It's like they haven't given much thought to the profile of the people they are aiming at - which for barristas, waiters, au-pairs etc is presumably late-teen/early twenty, and would by-and-large not be solo travellers.