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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

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    #8612
    baldbear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭baldbear


    Seems to be alot of asylum seekers are coming in via Belfast. They get the boat over and cross the border then.

    Two guys interviewed on Pat Kenny there . One from Morocco ,he had some issues there so had to leave. Didn't mention what issues made him flee. Paid €3k to enter England via France on a truck. Then headed over to Belfast .

    Another lad came from Somalia. Same story. Over the border after getting to Belfast . Had the cash to get over.

    75% of international protection applications are NOT made at the airports.

    So they are not really been bothered if they arrive with no papers at the airport. Ha ha. If I came back from a stag with no passport i wonder what would happen.



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    #8613
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833980#Comment_120833980

    Nothing. There is no law that forces Irish citizens to carry a passport and you.don't need one to enter as an Irish citizen, so you would be grand. 😉



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    #8614
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 8,984 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830788#Comment_120830788

    Of course our govt don't give two hoots about our tourism businesses... That's a known fact and certainly didn't start with refugees coming in



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    #8615
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 8,984 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833980#Comment_120833980

    You'd be unlikely to be left on the flight without a passport but if you smuggled yourself into England and crossed the Irish sea into Larne or Belfast you'd probably be a bit hungover after the stag but otherwise ok



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    #8616
    tesla_newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Listening to reporter Barry white on the Pat Kenny show in the past hour and reporter spoke to asylum seekers who paid up on seven thousand euro to smugglers in order to get here

    the truly wretched and needy do not have seventy euro to spend paying people smugglers, never mind 7K ,we are effectively taking in relatively well off folks from various countries

    we are contributing nothing to the alleviation of real suffering and hardship, it’s all about the feelz for progressives so anyone will do

    Post edited by tesla_newbie on


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    #8617
    TokTik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭TokTik


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833586#Comment_120833586

    Plus the 1bn we already give in foreign aid.



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    #8618
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭enricoh


    A famous restauranteur from Killarney telling it like it is.

    https://businessplus.ie/news/celebrity-chef-mass-closures/

    Mr Treyvaud said he believed the use of hotel rooms for refugees has caused the problem.


    "It's all down to the lack of accommodation. Any tourist towns that didn't give away their rooms are thriving and those that did have killed the high street.



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    #8619
    grumpyperson
    Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭grumpyperson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833572#Comment_120833572

    Well, at least that's something. You acknowledge that our resources are limited.

    We live in an area where our children's school friends have ended up in emergency accommodation, faced eviction, etc. I would see very negative affects on children in Ireland due to poverty. Argentina was once a rich country but now 40% live in poverty. Things are going fine with the windfall tax before corporation tax increases to 15%.

    I don't think it's as simple as saying we're a rich country and sure this grand.

    We probably need to have a proper discussion in Ireland to decide what we can afford because as far as I can see we cannot afford to pay for food and accommodation for everyone refugee and asylum seeker in the world as much as we'd like to do so.



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    #8620
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120834901#Comment_120834901

    I don't believe anyone should be housed in hotel rooms, no matter who they are, it's a terrible situation for anyone.

    I believe there is a gap that's getting wider and wider in Ireland between the haves and the have nots. I have a friend with 3 kids currently at risk of eviction with only emergency accommodation available for them. That is completely separate to refugees though.

    We don't really need a discussion about what we can afford, we need a discussion about how our country is managed. There is plenty of money here, it's managed terribly. We should have a world class health system, we should have enough housing for everybody. It's mismanagement plain and simple.



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    #8621
    Stephen_Maturin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835043#Comment_120835043

    How can you possibly say it’s a completely separate issue?

    There is a finite pot of emergency accommodation and both asylum seekers and Irish citizens in hard times are competing for that same accommodation. If there were no Irish people there would be plenty of accommodation available for asylum seekers. If no asylum seekers there would be plenty emergency accommodation for Irish people in difficulty.

    They are directly related issues.

    Yes, neither Asylum seekers nor Irish people in difficulty are the cause of this lack of accommodation. Yet here we are.

    We have to be realistic and pragmatic here when discussing real life issues. It’s all very well to say we “should” have this and we “should” have that but that butters no parsnips. Let’s talk about the REALITY of the situation.



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    #8622
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835119#Comment_120835119

    She is not at risk of eviction because of refugees.

    The reason there is only emergency accommodation is because of terrible government policies over the years with regards to housing in this country.

    We need a rapid house building project, immediately. Even if it is modular housing for short term, it is needed now. Take people out of hotel rooms, it's disgusting making families live in them. Leave the property dedicated to certain sections alone, old people homes and student accommodation and build purpose built property for people that cannot house themselves.



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    #8623
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835288#Comment_120835288

    Yes the government makes it worse by allowing no cap Ukrainian refugees , best welfare rates in the EU most asylum seekers get to stay regardless of safe country or claim . .



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    #8624
    Stephen_Maturin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835288#Comment_120835288

    She is not, as I also noted. However her the availability of that emergency accommodation IS strongly curtailed because of refugees.

    There absolutely has been terrible mismanagement by the government in this space for years.

    Now, let’s be realistic please - I think you can surely admit it is unrealistic to believe the government will be able to bring tens of thousands of dwelling on line (modular) or not, in any kind of reasonable timeframe. It will literally take years. And these people will still be stuck in hotel rooms for all that time. Which you yourself agree is a disgusting state of affairs.

    All that being said - can you not agree it might be prudent to limit numbers of arrivals (ala Denmark) until we can get things into a state whereby we can provide adequate accommodation for all?



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    #8625
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835363#Comment_120835363

    I'm not quite sure what you are asking here?

    You know this thread is not about me yeah?



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    #8626
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835581#Comment_120835581

    Your dubious claims deserve attention but play the innocent !!



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    #8627
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120832164#Comment_120832164

    Well, you complain about the polarisation and divisiveness of debate today and yet through your very own comment you explicitly purport to claim that those who disagree with you on this issue can simply be dismissed into little categories that demonstrate how wrong they are. You leave absolutely no room for the notion that maybe, just maybe, there are certain realities at play in the world around us that make the handling of refugees (and the negative impacts of it) something which is hard to avoid outright and hard to get absolutely perfectly right in ways that only work to some inviolable net benefit of the host country.

    I don't think that one can ever argue about this matter in good faith if they think their opponents on this view only think along the lines of your categories — leaving no room for any notion that they may have quite rational and reasonable beliefs. That's precisely the polarisation you claim to dislike ....



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    #8628
    grumpyperson
    Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭grumpyperson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835043#Comment_120835043

    Agree on mismanagement but do not think it's a binary problem.

    Homelessness/ eviction and refugees are not completely separate from my first hand experience.

    I think that's the discussion we should be having, how much refugee support can we afford to give, how can the support be better managed , what level of child and adult homelessness and poverty are we okay with in Ireland. Ideally, we would have large custom built asylum centres for asylum seekers that have doctors and counseling/ integration staff so maybe pressure should be put on the government to build such centers.

    There seems to be no plan or roadmap with people being told to shut up when they ask questions.



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    #8629
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835754#Comment_120835754

    I agree on the purpose built centres (but not anything resembling a prison! )

    it would also mean that claims would be dealt with much quicker as the country couldn't keep asylum seekers in these centres too long.

    it's clear that the war in Ukraine has had a massive impact on the refugee figures all over Europe, but I would hope it will end, I believe most Ukrainian people would like to go home if possible. I don't know what else we can do about it though? Would you honestly stop receiving refugees from Ukraine?



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    #8630
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120834684#Comment_120834684

    Interviews with him on RedFM (Neil Prendeville) and the Hard Shoulder on Newstalk yesterday where he goes into detail on the issue should anyone wish to listen.

    Meanwhile in the real world where the insistence seems to be making this an issue of race, there's a clear issue now around the country where there are accommodation shortages in certain areas dependent on seasonal tourism for their local economies. This is now the 4th year small businesses in these areas have been heavily impacted by Government policy, and as Paul Treyvaud says, it's not just these impacts, but the cost of doing business has skyrocketed. Many people are close to throwing in the towel. These are real people, in real world Ireland, and this will have real effects on hard working people who pay tax in this country and who are not getting a whole pile of support in return.

    There will be an election in 2024/2025 and this will be an issue on doorsteps right around Ireland. Since this Government has been elected, every summer they have been in power has heavily affected small businesses in hospitality. The first summer by Covid (which was resonable that summer), the second summer by over cautious restrictions and extremely slow lifting of same, the third and fourth summer due to energy prices and the removal of accomodation. This is a national issue now but there is one set of areas it is affecting much less than all the rest: constituencies that have TDs who are party colleagues of Minister O'Gorman.



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    #8631
    grumpyperson
    Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭grumpyperson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835808#Comment_120835808

    It's unclear to me why we had such a response to the Ukraine invasion. I think like most at the beginning we were completely shocked and offered a room even though we had none free.

    I since read up on the background. Trump and Biden arming Ukraine. Ukraine being called the most corrupt country in Europe by the guardian, the Maidan coup/ revolution, the 14,000 dead in the donbas, etc. Whether the Yemen children, child slaves in the Congo or Ukrainian's are more deserving of our help I don't know.

    In spite of the greyness of the situation, I am glad we reached out and helped the Ukrainian civilians looking to get away from the war.

    In saying that, I feel really let down by our politicians. Sabine Higgins wrote a fantastic letter stating the need to push for peace. We might as well be in NATO as regards the drivel coming from our leaders, not even an attempt to push for peace, rather attempts to slander and dismiss anyone calling fo mediation and peace.

    Secondly, our politicians should have pushed big nations like France and the UK to help more with the refugees. We obviously took the most in Western Europe while already having a housing crisis. It's likely they say nothing as our corporation tax may again come under scrutiny or perhaps concerns over FDI.

    So while I'm glad we helped the Ukrainian civilian refugees I believe we have over extended ourselves and our politicians have done nothing to try promote either peace or other countries to share the burden.

    Our government have made a real mess of everything to do with helping asylum and refugees. Communications have been appalling.



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    #8632
    superbatman
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭superbatman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120836630#Comment_120836630

    Very well said.



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    #8633
    Marcos
    Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Marcos


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120836630#Comment_120836630

    Reading that article, the Bank of Ireland.

    "Their opinions appear to be backed up by Bank of Ireland's latest survey of credit and debit card spending, which showed not one county saw increased spending last month, with counties such as Dublin (down 7%), Mayo (-6%), Monaghan (-6%), Kerry (- 6%) and Donegal (-4%) all experiencing spending dips relative to the previous month. Data also showed many people flocked to foreign climes in June despite the favourable weather at home, with spending rising in Croatia (up 71%), Greece (+55%) Italy (+32%), Portugal (+22%) and Spain (+13%)."

    When a lot of tourist accommodation is taken up by Roderic O'Gorman's invitees, there is less supply and what's remaining costs more. As you can see from the Bank of Ireland survey most people are voting with their feet and holidaying abroad.

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



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    #8634
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120836733#Comment_120836733

    I agree



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    #8635
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120834684#Comment_120834684

    The article suggests there are other causes for the downturn in tourism too. I suspect that is actually the case. Paul Treyvaud is partially right in blaming government on over reliance of hotels and responders to Paul Treyvaud are correct in saying that costs of tourist products here in Ireland are off putting.

    The facts do really appear to be nuanced in that not all the blame can be put at the doors of refugees as Paul Treyvaud would like to do.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #8636
    Stephen_Maturin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835288#Comment_120835288
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-41088361.html

    To reiterate my point from earlier.

    40% of emergency accommodation is taken up by non Irish citizens. That’s a huge proportion.

    Homeless record been broken again also. Over 3000 Irish children homeless.

    We don’t have the capacity to continue putting up everyone that arrives. Citizens of our country are missing out on accommodation due to capacity being taken up by arrivals - it’s not their fault but they are taking up the spaces. It’s undeniable.



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    #8637
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839137#Comment_120839137

    Which citizens are missing out on accommodation? 40% are non Irish homeless people, 60% are Irish homeless people. That is a breakdown of the numbers of homeless.

    I'm not aware of thousands of people missing out on accommodation, that's not an issue. Unless I'm wrong, and there are thousands of people sleeping on the streets?

    What is an issue is that anyone is being placed in emergency accommodation, it shouldn't happen in a country as well off as Ireland is. That's the disgrace. That's what needs to change and quickly. Not rating homeless people on their ethnicity.



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    #8638
    Gen.Zhukov
    Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭Gen.Zhukov


    Just a reminder - 500 passport trashers arriving every month - That's 500 big hugs AGS have to give every month - no wonder they haven't the time to chase scrotes

    This is what approx 500 people looks like for perspective/visualisation - 500 chancers every month

    500 people2 img.jpg

    Imagine trying to sift through this amount of people every month trying to find out who they are and where they're really from. Add to that, the genuine people fleeing real danger, the ones with passports coming here to chance their arm and from countries like Albania...who's govt don't take them back - The Ukrainians' still arrive daily

    As mentioned, Paul Treyvaud (restaurant owner) was on the hard shoulder talking about his real life experiences in Killarney - an interesting listen

    https://www.goloudplayer.com/episodes/lack-of-tourist-accommodation-ki-OTU4YzA5MDVjZTY0ZjdkMzY4YmI4MDQ1OTViMTVlMzQ%3D


    WE MUST DO MORE

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839223#Comment_120839223

    Just did the same, there's only so much one can take



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    #8639
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838060#Comment_120838060

    As he repeatedly said, he’s not blaming refugees, he’s blaming Government “policy” of effectively subletting hotels and turning them into direct provision centres with no regard for the knock on effects to the local economy.



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    #8640
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839634#Comment_120839634

    He has spent the last 2-3 years trotting out every single far right extremist trope and conspiracy on twitter. You'd swear the way he goes on that there's millions of refugees and millions of trans people in Ireland. I do have some sympathy with his points and would agree with a small bit of what he says but his hatemongering on twitter really doesn't do him any favours at all.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #8641
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120836630#Comment_120836630

    Can you clarify what point you are trying to make about Greens? Are you honestly suggesting that no Green TD or Senator has a hotel in their constituency hosting asylum seekers or refugees?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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