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Dublin urgently needs to enforce a green belt

  • 07-07-2023 6:14pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭


    The urban sprawl of Dublin is already out of control and a hard stop has to be implemented.

    West Dublin over the past few decades has exploded with development and naturally this has spilled over county lines to Kildare. Leixlip, Celbridge and Maynooth are now contiguous parts of the Dublin metropolitan area, with almost no green space separating them anymore.

    I fear the same is now happening with the north county, previously mostly unblemished. New developments mean that once separate and independent communities like Swords and Malahide, which are distinct localities, are becoming one urban area with only a couple of fields separating them. One could argue that development in Swords has gone over the top. It was always inevitable, being a settlement on the main road north from the city, that Swords would become a substantial satellite town but we can see with the metro saga that it’s population has exceeded the facilities in the area.

    Other areas such as the Malahide road between Balgriffin and Malahide village are also seeing development, with Kinsealy set to be built up over the next decade. This completely ruins the rural nature of this area and makes Malahide more at risk of becoming contiguous with the city.

    Other areas in rural Fingal such as Lusk are also seeing similar problems with excessive development. These areas are agricultural village communities and shouldn’t become suburbs.

    The solution is obvious, higher-density in closer proximity to the city centre, including high-rise.

    But until that happens however, we need to protect the green space that’s left in County Dublin.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Simply no. Been tried and failed... unless you mean stack em and stak em?

    Plenty of green spaces in Dublin. Should everywhere have a park for 200 people (I'll answer my own question they do have access)?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,278 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    That's what happens when everyone wants to live beside the city.

    There are actually loads of parks and been areas in Dublin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    People don't want development in their areas, apartment blocks, No! Too high... Build somewhere else..

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/05/12/local-opposition-to-800-unit-apartment-scheme-on-grounds-of-st-vincents-hospital-in-fairview/

    https://www.fm104.ie/news/fm104-news/concern-over-plans-for-850-homes-in-coolock/

    If no one wants housing near them then how is the problem of homelessness, lack of housing, urban sprawl, car commuting going to be solved..



  • Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭dublincc2


    I am not one of these Greta-type environmental extremists but at the same time I don’t want to see the green countryside of Co. Dublin destroyed forever. Look at how London etc has turned out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    During my lifetime the green areas in Dublin have shrunk massively. I don't think there's anything you can do about it. There just isn't the interest.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,803 ✭✭✭satguy


    People want homes, not parks,, People with homes, want parks.

    Something has to give..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    They want homes. Then they will want parks when they realise they live in a hi rise car park, or concrete suburbia.

    Once the green is gone, its not coming back in their lifetime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,730 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    What they are doing out Kinsealy, Balgriffin, Malahide way is brutal…. Not a cats chance in hell the majority of that planning gets the go ahead ten years ago…. Especially the stuff popping up around Balgriffin and Malahide.

    the planning laws never changed.

    nowhere near adequate road infrastructure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    The state wants to increase the population here by one million by 2040, and if things carry on as they are, it will likely be more than that. If that is going to happen, Dublin will continue to expand into a concrete jungle.

    I find this repugnant, and what has happened to Dublin deeply saddens me. However, as long as the economy is geared towards chasing the infinite growth genie, immigration will continue to be massive, land will be gobbled up for development and Dublin city will become more and more congested, just like London is across the pond.

    Personally, I'm rather confused as to how the state can espouse policy that ostensibly aims to protect the environment whilst simultaneously pursuing the above. To me, it seems rather contradictory, but I'm sure that these wise people in power are not simply thinking only of feathering their own nests, consequences be damned :).

    Post edited by RichardAnd on


  • Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭dublincc2


    The rural character of Fingal needs to be preserved at all costs.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭DrPsychia


    Where do you propose people to live? People need housing, since the NIMBYS don't want us to build dense housing/high rise apartments, we must build out. People don't want to live far out in the countryside where they will have long commutes to work. I'm not aware of a coastal city in a highly development economy that continues to grow which has a managed a perfect balance of green and lots of housing/industry, are you? I'd love to know of one.

    The one of the major issues with Dublin is the incredibly poor public transportation system. We need more luas lines or a underground to service the urban sprawl and reduce congestion.

    I find that some people who are against housing in their areas or even areas not close to their own, already having their own home so they become more ecological.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,026 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    The one of the major issues with Dublin is the incredibly poor public transportation system. We need more luas lines or a underground to service the urban sprawl and reduce congestion.

    We need to stop the NIMBYs having so much power. The needs of the many have to outweigh the needs of the few. NIMBYs have stopped us getting a Metro on the Southern end of the Green line as they have to drive a bit further to get into their homes that are walking distance from the city centre!!

    We need to start razing the low density areas in the centre of Dublin and put in proper modern high density developments. Stop putting high density developments at the end of Luas/Train/Bus routes. Both Luas lines are already at capacity yet we are building massive amounts of houses and apartments in Citywest and Cherrywood. What are the people who don't live in Citywest or Cherrywood supposed to do for PT when it's all full from the terminus.

    We need 15 minute cities in the centre of our cities not out in the suburbs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    What do you propose to do about the people who own and live in the properties in the low density areas?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    The 1st thing i would propose is to limit their ability to delay housing projects, to pull up the ladder after them.

    If a housing development (or compulsory purchase order for public works) gets the greenlight then there should be one appeal and one only. No high court. no supreme court (the supreme count could refuse to hear these cases).

    that way developers would have a timeline of when these works can begin and the delaying tactics would be stopped at source.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    ...developers and planners having such a good reputation...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,026 ✭✭✭✭Del2005




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,413 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    London green belt is one of the reasons their housing issues are so bad. It's a reactionary solution and ties hands for literally decades to come.

    Sensible density, and making clear to wealthy interests that all they'll achieve by going to court to try stop that will be a massive set of legal fees when they lose, plus people actually paying attention to zoning are what's needed. Lots of the "sprawl" is land that was zoned for development twenty plus years back so a reactionary measure against future zoning would do nothing to it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Always wondered why they don't do more of theses where it makes sense.

    I suppose it can be abused.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Without the green belt London would have turned into Los Angeles.

    Their housing crisis is caused by similar issues to our own. Selling off public housing, and not replacing it, which causes a shortage of social housing which spreads from the bottom to. The commoditization of housing which course people buy up properties as investments and and in some cases leave them empty.

    Any issues from the green belt are minor compared to that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,238 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Parts of Fingal currently does have a stretch of land zoned as a green belt between it and Meath, it's along where Fingal joins with Meath around the Kilbride area.

    However housing is currently being built right up to the line and what is agricultural land has been sold in the general area, no doubt in anticipation of rezoning. It'll be interesting what happens with it under the next LDAP.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Does no one else find it extremely unsettling that the idea of taking people's private property is so casually thrown around?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,026 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    I find it unsettling that no one cares that we are destroying our countryside. Farmers are being forced to rewild and we could loose large amounts of farmland to rewetting laws. Yet we continue to build further out into the countryside or up the Dublin mountains. There would be less need for public transport if people lived in our cities. Instead of building multi million Euro train lines all over the country for new homes, spend the millions on razing low density areas in the cities and the build new homes there. People talk of moving Dublin port for more land to build housing, to where as the NIMBYs will block it?, yet ignore the fact that large parts of our city center's are low density or have no residents. Demolishing and decontaminating a port is a huge operation, demolishing low density areas isn't.

    They will be compensated for their properties. We've CPO'd homes for motorways and roads. Why can't we CPO properties so we don't have to build more roads or train lines?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Let me be clear. I oppose any form of state expropriation of land, regardless. Farmer's losing their land for the reasons you outline was and is morally reprehensible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Look at cherrywood new development. 5 floor buildings beside the Luas, near no existing residential. But its ok, they can just swallow up the next field, put 5 floor residential there too and everyone can drive everywhere... totally ridiculous....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Do you understand what the implications of putting a CPO on a person's house could be? It will mean that private property, instead of being rightfully sacrosanct in law, will be merely conditional on the state's not wanting the said property. There is no good way to use such a power.

    I don't doubt for a second that many in power here are salivating at the prospect of being able to do this, and if the last few years have taught me anything, it's that a sizable proportion of the population have no respect for the freedom and rights of others. I am not going to debate this further, as I quite simply am disgusted at the very idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    While you might be "salivating" with outrage. I don't think you understand that CPOs exist and do happen.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    Absolutely not! Greenbelts are pushed by corporate interests that want to further limit supply and squeeze every penny out of us for tiny living cages.

    Dublin is growing, because that's where you have to go to get a job and salvage a living. Invest in the rest of Ireland!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Makes no sense. They make more building on them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    I've never heard such dangerous nonsense dressed up as virtue. Look at a map. Ireland is 99% green fields. I think we'll be ok when it comes to open green space.

    People are only pushed out to Kildare becuase it's becoming impossible to build new housing estates in Dublin. Now you want to stop new housing there as well! in the middle of a housing crisis. Bonkers.



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