Air Corps SAR

sparky42 · 18-06-2023 2:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730382#Comment_120730382

Almost like Twitter….

AerLingus747 · 18-06-2023 6:52pm

as much as fanboys want the IAC to do SAR again, the capability simply isn't there. It has also been covered via civil contract successfully and the last gasp they were looking at, of the top cover role, they failed to provide consistently, and with the availability of the P-8's from Lossiemouth for Rescue taskings, there isn't a need for the Casa on long range missions (which CHC were usually sending double Helo's to anyway, due to Casa unavailability).

Either way, the capability won't be anywhere near to challenge for even partial contract for 5-7 years, even if they started yesterday.

Psychlops · 18-06-2023 8:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729504#Comment_120729504

I guarantee ya EAS aint flying at 5am!

roadmaster · 20-06-2023 1:24pm

Slight thread drift with this question. Countrys like are selfs that have big SAR regions that go far out into the ocean has a Tiltrotor ever being offered by a contractor as a SAR aircraft or is it not viable with a winch?

sparky42 · 20-06-2023 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739597#Comment_120739597

Given the limited pool of tiltrotor designs in service and the costs currently I doubt it would be viable, and the downblast from the rotor wash would be an issue I would think.

sparky42 · 27-06-2023 11:25am

The Commercial court will hear CHCs appeal over the contract in 3 weeks:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/06/26/us-groups-challenge-to-800m-search-and-rescue-contract-award-admitted-to-court/

roadmaster · 27-06-2023 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772296#Comment_120772296

If the Court does agree with CHC that there is an issue where does that leave everything. Do CHC just continue on an agreed rate untill the issue is resolved if it drags out past there contract end date as Bristow have said they need the full 2 years to work up

Larbre34 · 27-06-2023 8:56pm

Yes, the current contract may be continued until the legal challenge of the award of the new contract is resolved.

CHC may make claims for additional costs as the contract goes into overtime, but they would have to be arbitrated.

AerLingus747 · 29-06-2023 1:46pm

Aer Corps been out on this ?

Search for Suffolk sailor Duncan Lougee missing in solo challenge - BBC News

Say ICG is working on it too.... Rescue51 been up yesterday and today

Psychlops · 29-06-2023 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120782503#Comment_120782503

Vessel was located by R117 from Waterford, vessel uncrewed & adrift.

AerLingus747 · 29-06-2023 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120784733#Comment_120784733

Good result for 117

AerLingus747 · 30-06-2023 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120786475#Comment_120786475

all that bluster about blocking :-D

yes, they found the boat, so there is some sort of closure ... a result

AerLingus747 · 01-07-2023 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790579#Comment_120790579

I never said you couldn't, never said you couldn't respond either... you're the one who make the big issue over it :-D

Or am I supposed to be hurt by it or something?

"Oh please Dohvolle, please don't block me, please oh please oh Aer Corps gatekeeper"

Manic Moran · 02-07-2023 5:05am

[Mod]Sigh. Why do I keep encountering these issues after midnight? I’ll look at this thread tomorrow… Temp Locking…[/Mod]

Manic Moran · 02-07-2023 7:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727979#Comment_120727979

[MOD]OK, do me a favour, here, AerLingus747. This sub-forum seems to attract enough "honest held belief" s**t-stirrers and trolls as it is that a number of regulars are on something of a hair-trigger for that sort of thing (See the Russia thread on CA for a similar effect).

Either you are one yourself (and looking at your posting history, I don't think that's true), in which case this is your warning to stop, or you just have an inappropriate sense of fun by winding people up which isn't working out well in this context, in which case this is your warning to keep it under control.

As others have recently observed, I do follow through after the initial direct warning.

Re-opening thread [/MOD]

AerLingus747 · 02-07-2023 7:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120796816#Comment_120796816

I think the winding up has gone very well seen as they've gone crying to you about it...

At the end of the day, they don't have to respond, in fact, Dohville said I was blocked but continues to respond to me, which is technology defying and should get some sort of technological medal for being able to do so...

If they didn't think their opinion was holier than though, it wouldn't be so easy to get their backs up.... their precious IAC is a lllooooonnggg way from anything functional other than maritime patrol and maybe some surveillance/ISR activities with the PC-12's.

Manic Moran · 02-07-2023 11:07pm

[MOD]Regardless of past success. It stops now[/MOD]

AerLingus747 · 03-07-2023 8:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797606#Comment_120797606

It's stops when Dohville and co start coping with anything negative said about the IAC... even if they put together sarcastic essay responses, it still doesn't enhance the IAC's capabilities any time in the next decade

the first step to change, is acceptance....

roadmaster · 05-07-2023 9:29pm

All the partys in court yesterday. Sounds like Bristow will not be using S92s

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/court-hears-claim-of-political-interference-in-awarding-e800m-air-rescue-contract-1497677.html

EchoIndia · 05-07-2023 11:09pm

It's in the nature of legal proceedings that claims are made that may not have a lot of weight behind them. Posting a media report doesn't add anything other than drawing attention to the proceedings. On the face of it, there's no clear issue here that casts doubt on the outcome of the tender process. But let's see how this progresses.

roadmaster · 06-07-2023 6:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811483#Comment_120811483

Thats true but in court on Tuesday the below was said

CHC had made a "really extraordinary submission" claiming the public interest favoured it because, it claimed, Bristow will not be able to deliver and that their (CHC's) aircraft are self-evidently better, which Bristow disputes, he said.

That reads as if its not going to be the S92. If rumours going round that it will be the AW189 that could be bad news for the Air Corps as Bristow might go after the Older Air Corps AW139 pilots who might be tempted to jump ship for a big pay day. Leonardo claim you can get rated on the 189 if you have flowm the 139 very quickley.

The one thing out of all of this that is very shi@y is that the current CHC staff dont know if they have jobs going forward. I dont know how the unions have not got an amswer for them yet.

AerLingus747 · 06-07-2023 7:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811732#Comment_120811732

Maybe the CHC S-92's are better than the Bristow ones... bit like my Da is better than your Da.

It's a strange assertion, as Bristow are about 70/30 split S-92's to AW189's in their UK fleet at the moment, and I don't see them getting brand new helo's for the Irish contract in the timeframe, unless they have recently lost a contract in the Mexican or Middle eastern gulfs?

Or it may not be a single type? With some AW139's or 169's replacing an S-92... but that leads to a redundancy nightmare.

roadmaster · 06-07-2023 10:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812289#Comment_120812289

Based on they said Bristows helicopters are not up to the job. If Bristow where going to use the S92 why would CHC say that when they use them. Would that in effect not be saying there S92s are not up to the job?

roadmaster · 06-07-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812623#Comment_120812623

Did you read the Article? In the High Court on Tuesday it was claimed that CHC said Bristows Aircraft are not up to the job

sparky42 · 06-07-2023 12:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812717#Comment_120812717

CHC want the awarding revoked, I imagine they are going to claim everything under the sun to try and make that happen, whether it’s the entire truth or not is a different matter.

Larbre34 · 06-07-2023 2:53pm

That's the daftest angle to contest a procurement award I ever heard.

I wonder do Bristow's S92s fly into big rocks in the middle of the ocean at night?

I do hope the High Court sees through this My Cousin Vinnie stuff quickly and dismisses the petition.

The Coastguard SAR service needs certainty and forward progress and it needs it soon.

davetherave · 06-07-2023 3:03pm

>Johathan Newman SC, for Bristow, urged the court not to grant an injunction which would prevent the contract being awarded to his client.

CHC had made a "really extraordinary submission" claiming the public interest favoured it because, it claimed, Bristow will not be able to deliver and that their (CHC's) aircraft are self-evidently better, which Bristow disputes, he said.

CHC are also using the fact that good old Gerry Craughwell stuck his oar in during the few minutes they (the Seanad) get at the start of business to go on about whatever they feel like, as part of their case.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/2023-05-31/speech/49/

The Department of Transport has set out its preferred tenderer for the search and rescue contract and that is Bristow Ireland, which I congratulate on the job. I am not one bit sorry to see that CHC has not gotten over the line.

From our point of view, this House and committee did much work that influenced the way this contract went. It was a good day for Ireland that we did what we did.

And this fine piece.

I want to find out, as regards the fixed-wing element, whether that aircraft will be stationed in Ireland. It should be stationed here. I suggest that Waterford Airport would be an ideal place for it. It could cover both the south and west coasts, but also the east coast. I do not want to hear we have a fixed-wing element somewhere in the UK because those fixed-wing aircraft carry specialised equipment and we do not want a foreign aircraft scanning Irish coasts.

I could be wrong, but I reckon that the crew of a vessel in need of assistance 60 miles off the south west coast of Cork wouldn't really care if it was EI-ICW or G-ICAW that was searching for them.

roadmaster · 06-07-2023 3:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813991#Comment_120813991

Can the good senator be dragged in to this court case or is he protected by parliamentary privilege?

tippilot · 06-07-2023 6:58pm

The tender specs were written for the AW189, be in no doubt about that.

Unfortunate, as the winter SAR environment here is one of the harshest worldwide and the east coast has high frequency large ferry traffic. Anything with a smaller capacity and shorter range than the S92 is a downgrade. No two ways about it.

The AW189 might have sufficient capability for the majority of takings, but it brings a reduction in overall capability.

Psychlops · 06-07-2023 9:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811157#Comment_120811157

Where does it say that?

Psychlops · 06-07-2023 9:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812469#Comment_120812469

They mean the S92 is superior to the AW189.

Psychlops · 06-07-2023 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815123#Comment_120815123

Wont work on the West/NW/SW.

Larbre34 · 07-07-2023 10:04am

The same noble Senator will be only too delighted with the attention

roadmaster · 07-07-2023 1:02pm

Id say there might be an article about this covered in one of the papers on Sunday

roadmaster · 10-07-2023 8:45pm

If you look at the JP Morgan presentation it shows an AW189 in IRCG colours. Is that hint it will be a AW189 Fleet?

https://www.bristowgroup.com/news-media/presentations

roadmaster · 11-07-2023 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120837998#Comment_120837998

Go to the 1st one June 20th 2023 J.P. Morgan Energy, Power & Renewables Conference scroll down 3/4 ways you will see the slide on the IRCG contract

Larbre34 · 11-07-2023 7:15pm

A photoshop rendering in a tender glossy is irrelevant. It just means they took one of their existing 189s and doctored the image.

Long way to go, if ever, before Bristow aircraft take up the role.

Psychlops · 11-07-2023 9:33pm

Screenshot 2023-07-11 at 22-29-35 J.P. Morgan Energy Power & Renewables Conference - J.P. Morgan Energy Power & Renewables Conference.pdf.png

Thats the image mentioned. Looks crap either way.

roadmaster · 12-07-2023 8:46am

Surley this report from sligo that the Bristow Paramedics will not be up to the same standard is scaremongering and total BS

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/sligo/news/sligo-councillor-wants-assurance-coast-guard-rescue-service-will-not-differ-after-contract-change/a2117455273.html

davetherave · 12-07-2023 10:14am

It is the 3rd of July meeting here - https://www.sligococo.ie/YourCouncil/CountyCouncil/Recordings/

That motion starts about 08:15.

It is pretty much what the article says.

"People have raised concerns me that those who have been award the contract, Bristow Ltd, would not have the same facilities which mean that our current service would be downgraded, in that those who provide the paramedical service would not be in a position to offer the level of care that they are currently providing"

"My understanding is that those who have been awarded the contract may not be in a position to have that same level of care that would result in the loss of life, possibly, along the western seaboard.

Like, it's Bristow Helicopters, they know what they are doing. They've been doing it for years in the UK and the North Sea. It's not Honest Dave's Helicopter Rescue.

Interestingly enough, what the article doesn't mention (or chooses not to) is when the councillor who seconded the motion starts, he says "I'm also a member like Cllr Maguire (the proposer), and Cllr Gilroy (the only other speaker on the motion), of the board of Sligo Airport." There could be a bit of loyalty to CHC there.

Larbre34 · 12-07-2023 12:40pm

It is total BS. Usual gombeen shite talk from Irish rural Councillors who would do or say ANYTHING for a bit of press coverage.

You'd never guess the local elections are in 10 months

mupper2 · 12-07-2023 12:42pm

Question for any lads who know, has there been any missions/how frequently have they occurred where the S92 was used but the AW189 would be unable to do similar?

FishOnABike · 12-07-2023 3:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841455#Comment_120841455

If anyone wants to register to see full spec. comparison https://air.one/compare/leonardo-aw189,sikorsky-s-92 From what can be seen without an account, they seem to have similar capabilities, with the AW189 having greater range.

Alun · 12-07-2023 7:32pm

I'm surprised the seating capacity is the same, the S92 looks much bigger visually.

Psychlops · 12-07-2023 9:34pm

I was talking to an EX IRCG S92 Pilot, he said "S92 can officially lift 20 casualties (but if situation warranted it could cram more in) & with the reserve fuel tank it had the endurance to give some margin when operating out at 200NM. What is said on paper as capability versus what actually happens when the mission changes, updates." Also was talking to a Crew person on one of the duty S92's "Space inside a helicopter when operating in Ireland is everything especially as we are a combined HEMS & SAR Operation, A full medical team of 3 & associated gear plus a child on an ICU trolley can easily fit & be wheeled up the ramp of the S92, this wont happen with an AW189 where you will be on your knees pulling it across the floor.

Great photos doing the rounds on twitter lately, AW189 just cant do what the S92 can its that easy.

roadmaster · 13-07-2023 7:32am

As Good as the S92 is there is drawbacks with it so maybe its a mixed fleet the IRCG need. There has being issues with the S92 on cliff rescues due to the washdown from the rotors making rescues diffcult.

The other issue is and i know some here dont agree with this but we have only Two Trauma centers in the country CUH and the bussier Mater. At the start of the process the medical community were asked on there views and they told the state that in serious cases of trauma the pateint needs to be dropped at the door and not dublin airport.

An here is the problem the S92 cant get in to the mater but a smaller aircraft can hence when 112 did it in a training excercise. Ironically i think the area they used for landing now has sisk cabins on it. So maybe thats why they are happy going with AW189 if thats what Bristow are using. Also remember in this contract there is a greater amount of inland HEMS expected

jonnybigwallet · 14-07-2023 8:30am

I see the AC are attending the RIAT at Fairford this weekend and are taking along an AW139 and an EC135 for static display.

roadmaster · 14-07-2023 8:31am

Looks like Bristow seam Confident they will be successfull in the Commerical Court

https://bristow.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/Careers/job/Europe--Ireland/HR-Manager-Ireland_R-0003268-1?q=Ireland

Psychlops · 14-07-2023 8:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849306#Comment_120849306

That has nothing to do with Air Corps SAR, they are celebrating Heli60 which is 60 years of IAC Heli Operations, also there has been plenty of years where they have been invited to RIAT & were unable to attend as they simply didnt have the capability.

roadmaster · 29-07-2023 7:17am

I see on the Aircraft fourm that the state have being given the go ahead to award bristow the sar contract. If bristow keep the current crews and change to the AW189 how do the logistcs of that work. How will the existing crews be trained up while still working for CHC for the next 18 months?

Air Corps SAR

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