Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

If you could follow their lead a self criticise some of you own culture. But somehow I think republicans lack that courage

Your refusal again to deal with the actual post.

Deflect and pivot.

Sure I'm being criticised for not condemning burning of effigies of Kate Hoey (which, from what I can see never happened), and for condemning the burning of specific effigies of Michelle O'Neill, even though I didn't mention her at all.

The deflection is strong today. Awful lot of, 'No True Scotsman' fallacies to defend the indefensible and the usual Blanch landing in just to take the opposite point to whatever SF say.

It might surprise you but I actually think this should be taken with the humour it was intended. I don’t believe these guys should be disciplined but I guess the will lose their jobs in this pc mad world.

Don’t know why the link won’t work

I don’t think anyone other than the media is getting agitated about it. But francie you just don’t get it. For republicans to taunt a unionist community, that they are in working in, with support for an organisation that has carried sectarian murder in that community; well that is a darn sight more serious than burning a politician’s picture. But we’ll not agree on that.

they look like two ordinary blokes with families at home. Who just had a silly moment. I think it should be dropped. Fortunately for them Nolan is on his holidays

I get why people from all communities dont agree with what Michell O Neil said last year but what has that to do with the guiding William of Orange from the Boyne to Antrim? Unless you are admitting that these have turned into hate fests that break UK hate crime laws.

No, I don't think the Paisley and O'Neill cases are analogous. I deplore what O'Neill said, but it's not as directly in point as Paisley turning up at the Lewes bonfire which was actively trying to to rid itself of anti-Catholicism so that he could try to associate the event with his own anti-Catholic bigotry. This was a direct attack on the event itself and what they were trying to do, so you have to expect the event organisers to make a statement of some kind in response to that, and this was the statement that they (predictably) made.

My Kate Hoey comment was of course tongue-in-cheek. But what SF symbolises to the unionist community is, of course, SF's attacks on the union. But the brute fact is that Kate Hoey and her cohorts have been attacking the union to much greater effect than SF ever managed, and if unionists are only willing to criticise Irish/Catholic/Nationalists for attacking the union, but are silent or supportive of British/Protestant/Loyalists who attack the union, then in truth it isn't about the union at all; it's about exacerbating and entrenching communal divisions in NI.

I think Unionists, badly in need of a 'themuns' distraction at the time, leapt on that statement like manna from heaven.

What was really wrong about that she said?

The fact was that the situation was allowed to exist, as it has done in everywhere from S.Africa to Ukraine that people felt they had no alternative but to violently resist.

It is normal rather than unusual behaviour in people who are subdued by a dominant power. The men and women of 1916 would have felt there was no alternative either.

You are misquoting,

She very clearly prefaced it with 'I think'. It was a personal opinion in other words.

The fact is many did think there was no alternative.

In any conflict/war situation you will have those who 'think' differently. The existence of those who think diferently is not unusual.

This crazy dancing on the head of a pin. So you are really trying to convince us that she was including the violence of the army on Bloody Sunday? Now you are stretching it

Perhaps you should make your own mind up before repeating what a news outlet tells you?

Just saying.

I was waiting to see if any of you guys would reference the info coming out since last night of the photoshopping of bonfires to place posters etc on them, but looks like I’ll wait.

I have to be honest and say that the ones coming out so far seem to be alliance connected as opposed to sf.

You couldn’t make it up, alliance are jealous of how many posters the shinners get on our fires.

I cannot think of a conflict/war situation in history where some people didn't 'think' there was no alternative and others thought there was.

e.g. You had the alternative of staying in the shipyards or going to fight in the war. Many stayed, many went.

You had the alternative to not take part in the 1916 Rising, many didn't, many did.

Simple fact was, many didn't see John Hume's approach as an alternative. In fact many many people in NI will tell you that Hume's approach and that of the SDLP would never have achieved what they have now.

Harsh facts, but facts all the same, whether you agree with them or not.

You miss the point. I have already accepted that people had different views about this. But O'Neill wasn't saying that people had different views; she was expressing particular view of her own — a view that I think was clearly wrong, can be criticised, and is difficult to defend. It is certainly not defended simply by saying "it is her view, and other people seem to have shared it".

Did the document include them dropping their constitutional discrimination against Catholics?

Nope.

So still unreconstructed bigots I'm afraid who are embarrassed by the behaviour of their members on the streets of NI.