RTÉ admits paying Tubridy €345,000 more than declared

I'd argue the healy-raes are celebrities. Especially in Kerry!

I don't know who Paul Murphy is, you might be right about him.

How did NK get he best deal for RT his client when he stated on numerous occasions yesterday that he did what RTE said.

Paul Murphy is a People Before Profit TD, who can be gobby at times.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Much of this has been intense for everybody and I understand that seven hours of this is difficult. Our job is to recognise that the people who are the biggest victims are the TV licence payers and the other RTÉ staff who have been affected by this and were required to take substantial pay cuts. It is our job to ask these questions. I just want to make that clear.

At the heart of this is that it was stated publicly that everybody, including Mr. Tubridy, would be taking pay cuts at the time. Then we discovered that these payments were being made which were kept secret and which RTÉ executives have acknowledged were an organised deception. We also discovered that these payments were mislabelled as consultancy fees by somebody. Mr. Kelly has said it was nothing to do with NK Management and that it was done under RTÉ instructions, which is a little bit difficult to credit.

The other bit of Mr. Tubridy and Mr. Kelly's narrative, the one I want to concentrate on and which follows on from what Senator Dooley said, is that the commercial arrangement and the pay reduction that was publicly stated as having happened were somehow two separate things. To put this honestly to the witnesses, that does not look credible from the emails that are exchanged between Mr. Kelly and RTÉ during that early period in 2020. I have not seen all of the correspondence but the first mention in the emails of the €75,000 from a commercial relationship is put forward by Mr. Kelly. That is the first mention of it that I see. That first email on 16 January also states: "Terms and conditions of this: Underwritten and guaranteed by RTÉ". It goes on to say: "The fees above include the €120,000 owed to Ryan" and it suggests there should be "four less" shows and a "Reduction of radio shows". In other words, the negotiating position that Mr. Kelly was adopting on behalf of Mr. Tubridy was linked to the overall pay cut but then seemed to be insisting on things that would effectually mean the pay cut would not happen in real terms. Is that not a reasonable reading of what we are seeing here? In the negotiation then, there was a pushback from RTÉ over a lot of the conditions that Mr. Kelly seemed to be insisting on.

I might put this other matter to Mr. Kelly. The email of 19 February also refers to Mr. Kelly saying, as part of this negotiating process, "we had a meeting with our client", who is Mr. Tubridy, in the process of the negotiations. Mr. Kelly and Mr. Tubridy were discussing the details, according to these emails, of this back and forward of negotiations. This is in the emails that Mr. Kelly has provided us. I have not even had a chance to read them all but, on the face of it, that is what it looks like. I am genuinely trying to be objective and I heard what Mr. Kelly said but that looks like Mr. Kelly is pushing for everything to mitigate the pay cut.

Mr. Noel Kelly

Page 5 of the information pack is an email from the CFO.

Point 4 refers to "Commercial sponsorship with 3rd party facilitated by RTE". We did not go looking for that or start that. It was completely facilitated by RTÉ. In relation to the contract, of course-----

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

No, sorry-----

Mr. Noel Kelly

Sorry, if I could just answer-----

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Okay, sorry.

Mr. Noel Kelly

In relation to the contract, there is always back and forth. RTÉ's job, as with BBC and ITV, is to give as little as possible to get the greatest commercial return. It is all based on advertising and commercial revenue.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I have to say that the first mention of a commercial arrangement in the emails, back and forward, is in Mr. Kelly's correspondence where he set down the conditions of accepting the overall pay reduction. It is clear from the responses from RTÉ that it only subsequently identified who that commercial entity might be.

Mr. Noel Kelly

Sure. The email referenced by the Deputy was in response to point 4, on page 5: "Commercial sponsorship with 3rd party facilitated by RTE". I was responding to that. No emails originated. All along, it was an RTÉ and a Renault sponsorship and they guard it jealously. Of course they would. Commercial organisations mind their advertisers and sponsors. That is what you have to do to make sure they come back again. That is all that was.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

From looking at this, it does not look that way. I am just being honest.

Senator Marie Sherlock

In Mr. Kelly's letters of correspondence back and forth, he talks about a 41% reduction over the past five years.

Mr. Noel Kelly

No, since 2012.

Senator . Marie Sherlock

He actually said over the past five years. He wrote the emails in 2020, so we have to take it that it is in the period 2015 to 2020. I can quote back to him exactly what he said.

Mr. Noel Kelly

I am sorry; it was 20%.

Senator Marie Sherlock

I am going to have to find it, but Mr. Kelly said 41% over the last five years.

Mr. Noel Kelly

That was from 2012-----

Senator Marie Sherlock

He said, "This represents a 41% reduction over the past five years" in an email dated February 2020. When I look at the figures of what Mr. Kelly set out in 2017, 2018 and 2019, and we expect that what was published was actually what Mr. Tubridy was paid in 2015 and 2016, it is approximately €2.5 million. Therefore, if he was to be taking a 41% reduction between the 2015 to 2020 period relative to the 2020 to 2025 period, we are looking at pay of more than €4.5 million or close to €4.5 million.

Can Mr. Kelly explain whether there are additional payments in 2015 and 2016 that he has not set out here? Are there additional payments that were on top of the published payments for 2015 and 2016 that would add up to the 41% reduction he talks about in the correspondence?

Mr. Noel Kelly

The years that are in question are from 2012 to 2020.

Senator Marie Sherlock

I am sorry; I need to read this back: "This represents a 41% reduction over the past five years." Mr. Kelly said that in 2020. I do not think I am going to get an answer if Mr. Kelly can say it is from 2012.

Mr. Noel Kelly

I am trying to give the Senator the answer. That was from 2012 at a height of €720,000 to €440,000.

Senator Marie Sherlock

I am sorry; Mr. Kelly's own words here do not relate to 2012. They relate to "the past five years", and he wrote this email in 2020. I asked Mr. Kelly whether there were additional payments for the years he has not given us details for today, that is, 2015 and 2016. Perhaps he may wish to come back and furnish the committee-----

Mr. Noel Kelly

Yes.

Senator Marie Sherlock

-----but certainly, he has written this a number of times in the correspondence-----

Mr. Noel Kelly

Sure.

Senator Marie Sherlock

-----and it is very clear that 2015 to 2020 is the period about which he is talking.

Mr. Noel Kelly

No, the period I am talking about is from 2012 to 2020.

Senator Marie Sherlock

Okay, so, what he wrote is factually incorrect in the correspondence. It had to have been. He talked about five years and wrote the email in 2020.

Mr. Noel Kelly

I am sorry; can the Senator tell me where that is exactly?

Senator Marie Sherlock

Yes, it is on page 10 of the briefing document provided to the committee.

Mr. Noel Kelly

Page 10.

Senator Marie Sherlock

Yes. Anyway, Mr. Kelly will need to go back and review because he does not really refer to 2012. He said "the past five years" and that email was written in 2020.

I want to ask Mr. Kelly about the Renault deal because I am conscious that time is pressing on. We have two documents here. We have the contract for fees of €440,000 for 2020 to 2025. We have a one-year deal between Renault and Mr. Tubridy. There are no fees addressed in this document. Is there a separate document detailing the fees associated with this work?

Mr. Noel Kelly

That is a separate contract, again, for specialist services.

Senator Marie Sherlock

I asked Mr. Kelly a question. Is there a separate document setting out the fees associated with this one-year contract?

Mr. Noel Kelly

RTÉ drafted that document but the fees are recorded in the emails for commercial activity.

Senator Marie Sherlock

We do not have the emails to show the final agreement. We only have the emails leading up to the agreement-----

Mr. Noel Kelly

The Senator might bear with me for one moment, please.

Senator Marie Sherlock

-----and Mr. Kelly said this is a five-year agreement. Where is the agreement for the final four years? We only have year 1 here.

Mr. Noel Kelly

On page 12, the February emails all confirm the €75,000.

Senator Marie Sherlock

I do not believe that is final. Is Mr. Kelly saying that on 28 February, he concluded negotiations between RTÉ and his company for the entirety of the Mr. Tubridy's package?

Mr. Noel Kelly

No.

Senator Marie Sherlock

My understanding is that it was concluded in the summer in July.

Mr. Noel Kelly

No, it was later than that. This was where it was outlined, however.

Senator Marie Sherlock

Basically, therefore, we just have one or two lines with an agreement of €75,000 per year every five years, but there is no detail as to the services that would be provided after year 1. We only have the year 1 detail of service.

Mr. Noel Kelly

I also have on page 22 of the briefing document the email invoice request from July 2020. Again, this is the relationship between RTÉ and Renault. It was nothing to do with us. It asks, "Can NK Management please send an invoice for €75k to Renault Ireland, for the attention of [redacted]. Wording as follows:"

Senator Marie Sherlock

I am sorry; what page is Mr. Kelly on?

Mr. Noel Kelly

It is on page 22.

Senator Marie Sherlock

The page I am looking at is the final page of the contract. Mr. Kelly is saying the email is all we have with regard to the contract.

Mr. Noel Kelly

I apologise; it is on page 23.

Senator Marie Sherlock

Okay. Mr. Kelly is saying that all we have for the contract between Renault and Mr. Tubridy for the final four years is just based on an invoice and an email.

Mr. Noel Kelly

It is not based on an invoice. It is based on RTÉ and Renault.

Senator Marie Sherlock

I do not see a contract, though. I just see an email and an invoice. There is a piece missing in the middle.

Mr. Noel Kelly

The email states that it is a "Bespoke Partnership between Renault Ireland ... to include personal appearances ... Activity [programme] to be agreed between Renault Ireland, RTÉ and NK ..."

Senator Marie Sherlock

Okay. Where is that?

Mr. Noel Kelly

It is on page 23 of the briefing document.

Senator Marie Sherlock

I appreciate that, but where is the bespoke partnership document for the four years? Mr. Kelly chased up payments. We understand there was a transfer and a payment made for the first year-----

Mr. Noel Kelly

From Renault.

Senator Marie Sherlock

-----of the agreement. Then, Mr. Kelly chased up two subsequent payments-----

Mr. Noel Kelly

Yes.

Senator Marie Sherlock

-----for which services were not provided.

Mr. Noel Kelly

However, services are outstanding.

Senator Marie Sherlock

I appreciate that, but Mr. Kelly was chasing payments for services that were not provided.

Mr. Noel Kelly

They are services that are outstanding.

Senator Marie Sherlock

Okay. Where is the documentation detailing those services to be provided? We have never seen that documentation.

Mr. Noel Kelly

I do not know what documentation ... I am sorry; what documentation is the Senator referring to?

Senator Marie Sherlock

The bespoke partnership. Why did Mr. Kelly have a detailed contract for year one and not for the following years? A series of questions need to be-----

Mr. Noel Kelly

I want to try to explain everything we can. The contract was rolled over from 2020 to 2021 to 2022, with Covid-19. Each year there were different requirements, different events, different set-ups. Each one that was done was different. There might have been 400 of one and 200 of another. Everything was bespoke to when everyone could do it.

Senator Marie Sherlock

We have no paperwork for the services.

Oh I know that, I am just proving how NK is full of ****.

In fact when ever NK's lips moved he was lying.

Very hard for them to agree on questions, or even formulate them, when they just received the docs 3 hrs in advance - 45 hrs later than expected.

New DG needs to lay down a marker get rid of tubridy and run Kelly out of rte.

That was their intention even though they denied this.

In typical Irish style, the nightly shows have moved on to another scandal.

Will be forgotten about next week, how do they manage to do it?

Two liars who deserve no second chance.

If rte management, whoever they'll be, had any wish to give this country a decent honestly run professional media outlet they'd say bye to RT and slam the door on that reprehensible NK.

Tubridy lied by omission. This imo makes him an immoral excuse.

Others need to see that this behavior us taken seriously.

We need to see that there isn't one rule for some and another for the peasants.