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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the Left - read OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Schroedingers activist - keeping it under wraps and vocally shouting about it at the same time

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,510 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I’m not sure why you are hoping to pivot into baseless personal innuendo rather than get on with discussing that school curriculum you were previously trying to convince people had troubling contents. You’ve spent more time hoping in vain to discredit me or get distracted with other tweetdumps etc. since. Why do you think that is? What could possibly be motivating you to avoid discussing that anymore, now that the curriculum has actually been provided to thread?



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    ... and YOU keep saying you agree its not representative of left wing sentiments!

    You're looking very hypocritical.here.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    There’s nobody trying to discredit you, you’re doing a bang-up job of that all by yourself.

    It’s your opinions anyone is focusing on, and the articles and tweets that you’re posting that you’re not even reading yourself, name-dropping people who you think anyone should care about whose opinions you aren’t even familiar with, in support of an argument you don’t have.

    Goodness knows indeed how many other people support what was said behind the scenes or when watching from home or social media, and what of it? After reminding myself this morning of what a cracking film “Gone With The Wind” is, I’ve been watching clips on YouTube.

    NSFW of course 😬 (turn down the sound too!)




    Christ she’d a temper 😂



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's a category error. You're taking one thing I said about one category and applying it to a completely different category.

    Yes, I reaffirm what I said earlier -- that the centre-left should not be lumped together with far-left extremists. It wouldn't make any sense because many ordinary, moderate people on the left want nothing to do with the far-left extreme flank.

    But within the far-left category itself, does there exist a problem with how much support Baker recieved -- both at the event, by Trans Pride, and through the subtle defence of Baker through whataboutery and deflection? Yes, there absolutely does appear to be a problem. And the history of violence by some trans activists against so-called "gender critical" women would attest to the conclusion too.

    So whilst I can see the sleight of hand you've tried to pull, I thought it best to call it out.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    No slight of hand - thread says left not far left.

    When you've brought left you've been unable to illustrate exactly what you were scated of.

    So you've had to go far left. Yes we know the far left like endorsing violence, that's not news.

    Again, a challenge: stop linking to far left and link to moderate left WITHOUT scaremongering

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Is Trans-Pride a far-left organisation nowadays?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,510 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Then start a far-left thread perhaps?

    What was your problem with the school curriculum again?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Which is why I was asking…

    Hard to keep up these days with all these threats from the left, no, far-left, no, left.

    🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    And again, this not consistent with your actions of posting them in a left thread.

    Nor is it consistent with your previous viewpoints with regards to trans and education, for example.

    Leaving this here, point is made.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As long as the far-left are a part of the left, I am fully entitled to express my views on the matter in this thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,510 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Yes you're entitled to be inconsistent while lecturing others about consistency.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    They wouldn’t be the far-left if they weren’t part of the left, seems a bit obvious? Like what else would they be? The far-left-centre-right? This whole idea of flanks of far-left or even Left as being focused on individuals is nonsense. Political movements are defined by their policies, not by the individuals themselves, or any particular individual.

    There wouldn’t be any fodder for the tabloid rags to report on though if they actually had to report on policies as opposed to targeting individuals and portraying those individuals as representative of a threat to civilised society posed by anyone who shares characteristics in common with those individuals. They’ve been at it for decades now and still what threat is there from the Left? None, they haven’t even been able to organise themselves in the last decade long enough to mount a challenge to the Conservative Government.

    25,000 people show up for a parade in London in a country of 65 million people, and the only thing tabloid rags have to report on is that one of the speakers made a joke, and the people laughed and cheered. You’ll speak of double-standards and all the rest of it, but you’ve no issue with anyone being arrested for exercising their right to freedom of speech and freedom of association when it’s someone who represents everything you claim to be opposed to. The article here at least sums it up well -

    British media has also been covering trans people and trans activism in alarmist ways for years, including transmisogynist coverage from the BBC, as well as coverage of Trans+ Pride, in which some Daily Mail headlines focused on a speaker who issued a a call to “punch TERFs in the face.”

    https://www.them.us/story/london-trans-pride-march-munroe-bergdorf-yasmin-finney/amp



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    And I'm entitled to point out that its just a ruse for anti-left rants because you hate the left without rational explanation

    Just to add: not against your links, just think they're out of place and ypu need to add a little more balance.

    Post edited by Princess Consuela Bananahammock on

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It's not even that. It's some weird and bizarre extrapolation that everyone on the left/the far left/trans rights supporters all get lumped in together and are all (in some peoples heads) supporters of inciting violence.

    Also hilarious how all those against a hate speech/hate crime bill in Ireland are suddenly cheering on someone being arrested in UK under similar law.

    Double standards.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Yeah, as I said- needs a bit more balance (or at least less scaremongering)

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,510 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Also hilarious how all those against a hate speech/hate crime bill in Ireland are suddenly cheering on someone being arrested in UK under similar law.

    Double standards.

    QFT:

    "Ultimately, people should be prosecuted for their actions, not what they think -- even if what they think is awful."



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    You seem incapable of posting without high levels of dishonesty.

    A Met Police spokesman told MailOnline today: 'A 53-year-old woman has been arrested on suspicion of incitement to violence. She has been taken into custody.

    Incitement has always been on the books. You're just making stuff up as usual.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Wrong again.

    Sarah Jane Baker has been arrested today for incitement to violence. Do you approve?

    When asked to comment when Baker was arrested, Baker said:

    Trans rights are human rights. One struggle, one fight.

    They won't get rid of us, our existence is our resistance, you remember that.

    Baker is doubling down on their initial threat of violence with a veiled threat of more violence in response.

    And yet Baker is consistently given a free pass on this thread by many who would instead rather complain about me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,510 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Why do they need to approve, are they the ombudsman?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Possibly because, as I said, Baker has effectively been given a free pass on this thread.

    All the focus is on me, not Baker and the incitement to violence.

    It's utterly bizarre.

    I've asked you three or four times on your take of what Baker said, and response there came none. You're fully entitled not to reply to the question, but it's unusual that you'd avoid what seems a straightforward, non-contentious question.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    How has she been.given a 'free pass'??

    Ypu don't seriously think people here suppott her do you?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    They’re not making anything up - the individual in question has been arrested under similar law as the proposed hate speech legislation which you have previously argued against.

    Incitement hasn’t been on the books in the UK since 2008. It was replaced by the offences of encouraging or assisting in a crime, under part 2 of the Serious Offences Act -

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/27/contents#pt2



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    What I'm glancing at is not one big comparative to the legislation that was trying to be passed here. Incitement indeed has always been on the books in Ireland.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,510 ✭✭✭✭Overheal



    Respectfully, there is no focus on you, there is focus on your arguments, your posts, esp. in this thread. I don't know you from Adam, a CIA agent, the Pope or a Peruvian, other than the aliases you've shared on the site. I've asked you in excess of 3 or 4 times to elucidate why you argue the school's curriculum is "concerning," you raised it as concerning so I looked into the particular school's curriculum, in the case which was presented to discuss (I think, from a tweetdump, iirc), I read it, and I'm asking you to qualify that thesis because I don't think that thesis is defensible, and I think the burden of proof rests with the source of claim. The thread title challenges people to look 'in the direction' and consider the danger, so alright, what's the danger, concern, etc. with the curriculum.

    "Baker" has no free passes, they are under arrest, correct? It is bizarre to complain one is being "focused" while simultaneously continuing to make personal accusations of others in this thread.

    I posted the incitement statute for the UK above

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/27/section/44

    https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20081013095030/http:/www.justice.gov.uk/docs/serious-crime-act-2007-implementation-part2.pdf

    If it were some activist with no priors I doubt they'd have a case here, given the detainee is reportedly an ex convicted felon of kidnapping and attempted murder it seems clear the meme defense won't succeed in court without at least, a really good team of barristers. Now about that curriculum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I don’t know what way you’re reading it then, because it’s similarity to the proposed legislation here is that it means a person may be charged with an offence of encouraging the commission of a crime. I’m not aware of the specifics of the arrest, but it appears to be based upon the idea that the police are taking what was said as a joke literally.

    Incitement has never been on the books here either, Incitement to Hatred has been though, since 1989, but that’s being unreasonably picky. I’m not going to claim you’re making stuff up though, because that’s just silly. I don’t imagine we’d have a similar situation here in Ireland as the one in the UK tbh. The police there had initially said when a complaint was made that the speech was permitted under free speech laws:

    She was reported to the police for inciting violence at the weekend, but a Met officer initially told a complainant it was not in the public interest to pursue the case, saying the call for violence was 'hypothetical' and allowed under free speech laws. 


    They’ve obviously come under pressure since to pursue a case. Here at least, Ricky Gervais can still come out with this kind of shìtshow:

    Under the guise of free speech, Gervais last night made reactionary and often sub-juvenile jokes about: African babies with Aids, child brides in Pakistan, limbless disabled boys being misogynist racists, dwarves losing work at Christmas because of woke culture, Chinese children eating dogs, children giving sexual services to the local paedophile in return for a puppy, his mother performing fellatio in hell eternally, his grandmother loving penises, Hitler’s one testicle… and even more tasteless (if such a thing was possible) horrible jokes about homeless people, illegal immigrants and inefficient children working in Third World slave labour sweatshops whose mothers are sexually abused “by their owners”.

    Around 11,000 people laughed – as 11,000 people did the night before at the same sold-out venue. We possibly felt complicit or comfortable by laughing. It was like the line in the Taylor Swift song: “Look what you made me do.”

    Ricky Gervais made us split our sides laughing at some horrendous jokes. We can’t blame him. We knew what we were getting when we sat down in our seats last night at 7.45pm.

    https://archive.ph/yssFN


    I know I called it wrong earlier in the thread when I said it was unlikely that they would be charged with an offence, but it appears there really is a blatant double standard in play when it comes to people who are transgender. I’d still be really surprised if they were convicted of an offence tbh.

    Post edited by One eyed Jack on


  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    That's the whole point of the new proposed bill - updating the Incitement to hatred act 1989

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Haha, nice catch.

    Would you like a chance to explain this hypocrisy, or will we just accept you’re a hypocrite?



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