Plight of Bull Calves

Would you like to enlighten us on what she got 'wrong'?

It just so happens her constitunecy is highly populated with small farmers ,just saying it might not be the smartest move pissing them off big time especially with the tide going out on the green wave

You are right there nobody is actually in favour of cruelty to animals.

What we saw in the programme has been condemned by politicians, farmers and state bodies.

We just need to act to stop it.

There have been many studies showing a link between animal cruelty and other violent behaviour.

This link is one example.

Have we jumped the shark...?

according to studies done here, cutting out meat and dairy reduces your impact on Earth far more than giving up flying or buying an electric car.

I grew up on a dairy/beef farm where we killed a heifer every year.

I've been in every type of slaughter house with work, have seen the killing in action, the bleeding and the rest.

I've a rifle for deer hunting and shoot very occasionally, and eat venison. I've occasionally shot and eaten rabbit. I purchase mountain lamb off a neighbour.

But years ago I had to visit for work a pig farm for about 1-2hrs. I haven't eaten pig meat since, except from a neighbour who has them running around his wood.

I'm ok as an omnivore with a developed brain to continue to eat meat knowing that animals have to die for my benefit but there is areas of meat production that are ridiculously cruel that even turn me off the derived meat.

Generally speaking Irish beef and lamb have it pretty good but poultry (the "healthy choice") and pigs have it pretty rough and I don't consume it.

TLDR I think when even a redneck like me will choose meat source depending on how it is produced it'll effect the decision of lots of people it they were aware of it.

I don't have the capacity to do carbon tests, but I linked above to a study done by the University of Oxford and published in Science magazine, stating that giving up meat and dairy has more of an effect on your carbon footprint than giving up flying. I would have thought Oxford and the respected Science magazine might know what they're talking about.

The study was on individuals, not countries. I was responding to you saying people should stop flying instead of stopping consuming meat, as flying is worse for the environment.

The study I posted says otherwise, that an individual is better off giving up meat and dairy rather than flying, if worried about emissions. Those boffins at Oxford tend to know their ****.

Giving up flying is vastly easier.

I've been to a lot of marts in my time and I haven't seen calves being thrown and dragged about etc... I can't be aware of something I haven't seen....and this is at marts with small and large throughput

I'm sure it happens however because you can't have hundreds of thousands of calves being bought and sold without some bad actors/inexperienced morons being involved at some point like any industry...

Just like I'm sure there are puppy farms with horrendous conditions or horses with varying degrees of health and responsible/irresponsible owners running along public roads with sulkys hanging out of them

None of that is right but I could spend all day long complaining and the sum total of sweet **** all would probably happen.

They have people in this country with hundreds of previous public order convictions getting suspended sentences for assaulting people and leaving them with life long-life changing injuries up to and including brain damage....the gards are continually let down when they go to actually do something about it as the scumbag that did it is frequently back on the streets in no time sticking the two fingers back up at them and you want me as a farmer to do exactly what...

So ill ask again what do you think I as a farmer can do if

1) I haven't seen it happen

2) If I did I would challenge the fucker that did it to an animal of mine (as I do have feeling for them and on the less admirable side it might lose me money on sale price as an agitated or mistreated animal may not be as attractive to prospective buyer....

3) Even if I did see something and went about attempting to rrmedy it through official channels Im almost certain it would have **** all consequences given what I witness, read about and see/hear on a daily basis in this country...

So what like ring the mart and complain....with zero proof...maybe take video footage to remedy that and report to RSPCA, report to local authority etc....something along the lines of I saw a guy hitting a bullock with a stick to load it on his lorry, here's the reg and a photo of him....what would actually happen to him would be my question and I think I know the answer.....but even if I did that as a salve for my conscience would that have any effect on the lads blaming all farmers for this?

This use of Farmers as a catch all term pisses me off no end...needs to be qualified with some or a very small percentage and even that's not satisfactory as it's not getting to the root of the problem.....the issue isn't the vast majority of family farms/farmers....its a systemic issue, those farmers have been price takers squeezed for generations at this stage and now they are to blame...

Blame the system that squeezes the last drop of blood out of them and the small percentage of those commiting the foul....and ask for consequences for them

And that's for the most part the lads at the top creaming it by sucking everyone else's margin....eg: wouldn't surprise me if that lorry driver knows he won't have a job next month if those calves don't reach the lairage in 18 hours or whatever it is......oh it won't be written down anywhere or on a text message etc...it will just be understood....the person to blame there is the guy above squeezing for that to happen.....but he's doing that because if he doesn't some other money man will and swallow him up in the process...its the higher you go the more that calves are just units and all that matters is the bottom line.

It's a systemic thing and needs to be handled from the top down....that's why I'd say **** all will happen but yeah keep blaming farmers as one homogenous grouping that haven't even been able to stand together for even their own welfare since there have been farmers afaics

You didn't link the study, you linked the newspapers comments on it. The study, I've checked is behind a paywall.

I read a lot of scientific studies, you'd be much better off making up your own mind rather than accepting something because it comes from Trinity, Yale, Oxford or wherever after you have read the source document.

I'd like to know the lead authors background, source of funding, study design etc etc.

Study maybe perfectly valid and scientifically valid but we don't know that yet.

Here's the unpaywalled paper

From the BBC - According to a BBC carbon footprint calculator, eating a 75g serving of beef one to two times a week for a year generates 604kg of CO2 emissions. Another way to look at it is that one kg of beef, which a person would consume in seven weeks if eating a serving a couple of times a week, generates 100kg of CO2 equivalents (the non-CO2 gases produced by beef, mostly methane, which has over 80 times more warming potential than CO2). This would mean eating beef twice a week for a year would produce more than 700kg of CO2 equivalents. Moreover, animal agriculture accounts for up to 18 per cent of global emissions, while aviation accounts for around two per cent.

Anyway, the masses aren't giving up flying or eating meat any time soon. I'm just making the point that giving up meat and dairy is one of the best things you can do if worried about emissions.

Do you have any research to back that up? There's plenty of stuff online saying giving up meat is better than flying a couple of times of year.