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World's hottest day since records began

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    You’d be wrong then! 🙂

    It’s juice. Just juice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    This is a bit of a strange response.

    How does the Enviromental impact of the war in Ukraine not really matter to Irelands environment?

    It’s not like we are in a sealed chamber unaffected by what goes on outside! Of course it matters!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    i was responding to him giving out about land being left to the "birds, bees and butterflies" in ireland, as if trying to help nature on this island is some woke nonsense. the environment is in a bad way in ireland and nature needs our help.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    To use it as an excuse to do nothing is the problem here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    well it's colloquially known as oat milk, everyone calls it that, much to the ire of farmers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭dmakc


    Log off. Go outside and get some fresh air. Christ



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,518 ✭✭✭✭Rikand




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Such is the level of ignorance of the real and pressing crises we face. All's grand - move along people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Nope not everyone.

    Id say its a minority tbh- anyway no point crying over spoilt juice 😂



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Just because it is white in colour, it is not milk



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I've never heard anyone ask for an oat juice latte. They all say milk, deal with it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭tobesure


    Why do people draw a line in the sand at one moment in time and think this is the standard the world should be at forever?

    Imagine being alive during the time of Pangea. And seeing the continent break up? We'd probably be telling ourselves we can't let this happen etc.

    I was watching RTE news a few months ago and there was a segment complaining about coastal erosion claiming climate change is to blame. Eh helloooo, look at google maps, look at the west coast of Ireland compared to the east coast. Erosion has happened over millions of years.

    You have constant energy in the form of the sun blasting down on half the earth 24 hours a day. Where do you think that heat goes? You think ice caps will stay ice caps forever?

    Once people wake up and realise that humans, even in a perfect case scenario, will die out as a species, at latest when the sun dies out.

    That means at some stage of the earths life, human population is going to start falling and falling and falling.

    What do you want to do? Prolong it? Have the population of 10bn before people start dying? What's the point of living in hardship when the end result is the same anyways?

    May as well just create a giant space ship and block out suns rays for hours a day.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A very philosophical analysis - but thats not the scenario we are in.

    We as humans have demonstrably caused the recent climate shift and it will kill many people as a consequence (it is already killing 10x of thousands a year). We have opportunities to avoid the worst outcomes if we act appropriately now. To do anything else is to actively choose as a species to commit suicide. I personally think thats immoral.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 404 ✭✭bluedex


    Nothing, I don't demand a bigger share.

    I've no idea, do you?

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭monseiur


    What you regard as ignorance is what the rest of us call 'realism'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭Jizique




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭compsys


    Like most climate sceptics you fail to mention or indeed realise the most important thing: SPEED.

    Yes; the Earth has gone through all sorts of changes before. But they've happened over tens of MILLIONS of years. Sometimes BILLIONS.

    Not three decades.

    The speed that the Earth is warming is not giving humans - and more importantly animals - time to evolve and adapt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    That may not be true at all.

    The climate can and has changed rapidly over very short time scales measured in decades:

    One of the most surprising findings was that the shifts from cold stadials to the warm interstadial intervals occurred in a matter of decades

    One researcher has suggested the onset of the last glaciation period took only months.

    Previous evidence from Greenland ice samples had suggested this abrupt shift in climate happened over the span of a decade or so. Now researchers say it surprisingly may have taken place over the course of a few months, or a year or two at most




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Is this to do with fresh water upsetting the salination of the sea from the ice caps melting and thus turning off the movement of warm waters to northern hemisphere countries?

    I mentioned this before and I think it may have been @Pa ElGrande (apologies if it wasn’t Pa!) or another poster who said that can’t happen and gave a pretty good explanation as to why.

    Anyway imo climate change is happening wether you believe it’s man made, natural, or a mixture it doesn’t really matter- as it’s happening.

    What I’d love to know and I keep asking but the green acolytes can’t tell me- is what should Irish citizens and the government be doing to PREPARE for the effects of climate change as opposed to trying to stop/ reduce its effects (how arrogant are they thinking we can stop a planets response/climate shifts 😂)

    So again I ask what should we be doing?- will Ireland get:

    colder?

    warmer?

    wetter?

    dryer?

    mixture of these depending on seasons?

    Should citizens ensure they have clothing and stores of fuel in winter to combat temps of -20C?

    Should citizens ensure they have clothing and stores of water and food in summer to combat temps +50C?

    A bit of advice/ forecasting would be helpful!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As recent events should demonstrate the one certainty about climate change is an increase in uncertainty. Both the massive heatwaves we have been so lucky to avoid and the beast from the east are consequences of climate change. Extreme events become common and each catastrophic event bleeds away our ability to respond and prepare for the next.

    So your guess is as good as the next man's regarding how to prepare. You will see more massive freezes and more massive heatwaves, you will see floods which will swamp away whole communities and render tranches of the country uninsurable. Welcome to your future.

    One thing Is certain, insulation will help you cope with the heat and the cold so that's probably the best place to start.

    The study of complex systems should be informative. Complex systems have steady states which they hold to until you pump in enough change to push them into a new steady state. This is why tipping points are the most important part of climate study. As yet we have not breached any of the main identified tipping points but we are close on permafrost and methane catastrophy. Expect a very rapid and sudden change to the prevailing climate norm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Exxon disputed climate findings for years. Its scientists knew better.

    Projections created internally by ExxonMobil starting in the late 1970s on the impact of fossil fuels on climate change were very accurate, even surpassing those of some academic and governmental scientists, according to an analysis published Thursday in Science by a team of Harvard-led researchers. Despite those forecasts, team leaders say, the multinational energy giant continued to sow doubt about the gathering crisis.

    In “Assessing ExxonMobil’s Global Warming Projections,” researchers from Harvard and the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research show for the first time the accuracy of previously unreported forecasts created by company scientists from 1977 through 2003. The Harvard team discovered that Exxon researchers created a series of remarkably reliable models and analyses projecting global warming from carbon dioxide emissions over the coming decades. Specifically, Exxon projected that fossil fuel emissions would lead to 0.20 degrees Celsius of global warming per decade, with a margin of error of 0.04 degrees — a trend that has been proven largely accurate.

    “This paper is the first ever systematic assessment of a fossil fuel company’s climate projections, the first time we’ve been able to put a number on what they knew,” said Geoffrey Supran, lead author and former research fellow in the History of Science at Harvard. “What we found is that between 1977 and 2003, excellent scientists within Exxon modeled and predicted global warming with, frankly, shocking skill and accuracy only for the company to then spend the next couple of decades denying that very climate science.” Full story below




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    That's a short term, regional catastophic event.

    We're talking about long term global climate change

    Climate change can trigger such catastophic events btw. And this is one of the biggest fears I have. The more we allow the atmosphere to become polluted with man made emissions, the more likely we are to see these abrupt events occuring. Mass die offs of corals, the sudden collapse of the Amazon rainforest, the collapse of the thwaites glacier, the shut down of the AMOC, mass release of methane from the Arctic Ocean and permafrost......

    These are all more likely to happen the more we delay action on climate change. It's an emergency that requires immediate global action.

    If we can't get everyone to act, we need to get a critical mass of countries to unite to at least give us a fighting chance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Those executives who ordered the science to be buried are sociopaths who have the needless premature deaths of millions of people on their heads



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There should be manslaughter charges against every one of those oil company executives. The rest of their life in jail is to good for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Right but the only way to stop this is to stop consumerism- ya know that right?

    That ain’t gonna happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So your saying we can’t really meaningfully prepare for what’s coming and we don’t really know what’s coming but we should all feel really guilty about consuming meat and partaking in any activity that might be generating CO2 such as driving to work to contribute to the economic betterment of the countries economy………is that correct?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    100% closed loop recycling. Nothing should be made without it been 100% recyclable and make it the law. It would certainly help along the path to sustainability



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




    Feel what you want, that's not up to me. Your correct though that much of the economic activity we take part in is a problem. I don't have an easy answer but I do see the issue. None of this is easy but why should we expect it to be.

    I would be working on ways of saying sorry to our children for all the good it will do them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,315 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Yeah I'm not even vegan but once you go oat in coffee there's no going back



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Children are the worst, not only is population growth the biggest contributor to emissions but they really have no interest in walking to school daily, doing without any summer travel, and they shell out alot of money disposable fashion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,315 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I am talking about long term global climate change. In fact I have a fascination with really long term climate change on a geological time scale. The months and decades being referred to were not measures of the extent of climate events, they were referencing the time scale on which the climate altered dramatically.

    Glaciation events have characteristics that are the complete opposite of what you suggest: They are not regionally localised, and they are not short term. We are currently in an inter-glacial period within an ice age that is probably on-going. The only thing short-term during this ice age is the incredibly brief length of interglacial periods, such as the one we are in and possibly most of the way through.

    We are at 0 on the time line. The last glaciation period was not regionalised nor was it short lived. Suggestions that current CO2 levels and temperatures are abnormal for interglacials and the incredible catastrophism that is based on these assertions, seem somewhat questionable. In terms of the big picture, the claims seem exceptional..

    Climate change is a thing, and there is nothing new about it and it can change a lot, very rapidly. Claims about hottest day on record and oceans boiling are nonsense.

    Post edited by cnocbui on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Count Dracula


    Probably due to the El Nino and then compounded by Solar Flare activity causing the Ozone layer to deplete.

    Greece is always boiling in July, but if they don't get a decent northerly wind blowing , they are know as Meltemi winds, look it up children, things will heat up big fooooking time.

    If the above factors form at around the same time it will give most environmental armageddonists a substantial opportunity to correlate a metre long tube of ice plucked from the northern tundra of Norway, with some other random contemporary weather anomaly and say this is reason why we are going to slaughter 200,000 Irish Beefstock, dramatically increase taxation on anything related to energy and thus VAT on that cost.... to also disrespect every other human's existence on the planet by constantly enforcing their virtue signalling opine in their direction, via threatening them with the destiny of the human race every time they throw a fag butt out their car window.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    😂 I bet your great craic at parties!

    Economic expansion is always going to trump enviromental health and that’s just the way it is- until economic expansion is impeded by enviromental health.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Were they planning on not slaughtering any more cattle or something?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why this El-Nino, why not one of the thousands of others we have seen. Whats the underlying trend when you take the El-Nino out of the equation. Solar flares come and go and we have been through one of the quiets solar cycles ever experienced and yet global temps marched steadily upwards.

    Whataboutarry strikes again.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You will know then that the pre-industrial temperature trend would have put us back into an ice age in about 8-12K years time (yes it was on a steady decline). Care to guess when the post industrial trend puts us back into an ice age ?

    We know most of the factors governing ice age progressions at this stage (the Milankovich cycle and continental drift) but current global trends are not what the Milankovich cycle predicts.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The problem as I see it is that most people want someone else to do their thinking for them and their are plenty of people willing to take advantage of that tendency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,221 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Which crops are failing more frequently? Here's wheat, for example. Don't see any drop there.

    Where's the megadrought in Spain? Their own met service tool shows no such event. Overally pretty average.

    https://monitordesequia.csic.es/monitor/?lang=en#index=spei#months=4#week=1#month=6#year=2023




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Spain was under a severe drought but I think they had a bit of a reprieve around May.

    This is from early/mid April.

    MADRID (AP) — Drought now affects 60% of the Spanish countryside, with crops like wheat and barley likely to fail entirely in four regions, the main Spanish farmers’ association said on Thursday.

    Spain’s long-term drought is causing “irreversible losses” to more than 3.5 million hectares of crops, the Coordinator of Farmers’ and Ranchers’ Organizations (COAG in its Spanish acronym) said in a new report.

    Some cereals need to be “written off” in the prime growing regions of Andalusia, Castilla La Mancha, Extremadura and Murcia, and are likely to be lost in the driest areas of three other regions, according to the report. In the wine-growing region of La Rioja, farmers were in the exceptional situation of “having to irrigate cereals ... when normally they are never watered,” the association said.

    The lack of available water was further impacting the ability of farmers to irrigate corn, sunflowers, rice and cotton, likely leading to reduced sowing of these crops over the summer, it added.

    Three years of very low rainfall and high temperatures have put Spain officially into long-term drought, the country’s weather agency said last month. Last year was Spain’s sixth driest — and the hottest since records began in 1961.

    Spain’s agriculture ministry has called a meeting with farming representatives on Wednesday to discuss the crisis. COAG will plead for immediate financial relief, it said.

    “This has been the most expensive planting season on record, and with harvests ruined or reduced by 60-80%, there will be many farms that will have a very tough time surviving if they don’t receive an injection of capital,” said Javier Fatas, head of water and the environment for the association.

    In addition to crop failures, ranchers will struggle to feed cattle due to dried-up pasture, the farmers’ association further warned. This will also be the third consecutive season without honey for beekeepers, as bees lack vegetation and flowers to feed from in the mountains due to a shortage of water.

    Anyway it goes on and on. The farmers coordinator says droughts are nothing new in Spain but the problem is that in recent years we have also suffered from a lack of precipitation against the backdrop of a noticeable increase in temperatures.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    No.

    The problem is economic growth is incompatible with environmental health.

    Economic growth is consumerism



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Entirely true, but to ask someone else what you should feel about something is an example of trying to offload your thinking. This is a massive problem since only by owning the issues can you hope to have an active input into there solutions. The public is far to passive mainly because they are living in a state of denial and there are plenty of people who would feed that denial.

    As I said what you or anyone else feels about a situation is entirely up to them to decide - but they must base their opinions on the evidence not what they want to be true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Milankovich's prediction of ice age cycles does not match with actual geological records. He predicted a periodicity of 41,000 years, but the measured period is more like 100,000 years. It's called the 100,000 year problem.

    Your speaking with assurance about the actual timing of the start of the next glaciation period, as if it were fact, is not based on any established or accepted theory. The timing of glaciation events can not currently be predicted and is purely speculative.

    A few years ago there was panic over the measured slowing of the Atlantic Meridian Overturning Current (AMOC):

    "Concern grows over Atlantic Ocean ‘conveyor belt’ shutdown...But the effects of anthropogenic climate change have diminished the flow of this vast conveyor belt system, known as the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC), and recent scientific research suggests it may even be headed for collapse." and then in the blink of an eye, there's a new study claiming it may not be that simple.

    By the way, that atribution of a slowing of the AMOC being due to anthopogenic warming is as much of a nonsense as claiming glaciation event timing is understood... because it's probably not slowing!

    We see no significant AMOC weakening trend over the last 120 years.

    https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2021GL093893

    And even the prevailing theory that melting ice slows or stops the AMOC, has been challenged:

    "The problem," says He, "is with the geological climate data."

    Though the climate record shows an abundance of freshwater that came from the final melting of the ice sheets over North America and Europe, the AMOC barely changed. So, He removed the assumption of a freshwater deluge from his model.

    "Without the freshwater coming in making the AMOC slow down in the model, we get a simulation with much better, lasting agreement with the temperature data from the climate record," He says. "The important result is that the AMOC appears to be less sensitive to freshwater forcing than has long been thought, according to both the data and model."

    https://phys.org/news/2022-04-ice-caps-ocean-current.html

    So given the AMOC was thought linked to glaciation events, perhaps being causative, and that's it's clear the AMOC is not as well understood as thought, it's clear that there is not any great understanding of the mechanisms that presage glaciatiation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




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