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FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    That article doesn't even seem to know if its saying Martin would be a candidate for the presidency or as Ireland's commissioner. There is absolutely no reason to suspect the former (FF are in the wrong political grouping for one) and the latter may not be in the gift of the current parties. I suspect its entirely concocted garbage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Pretty much every senior minister in Government in the last 10-15 years has been accused of trying to line up a job in Europe at some stage, usually without much, if any, evidence to back it up.

    The usual suspects on here love to parrot the same speculation without any hint of critical analysis too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,326 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Other than the commissioner, what 'big Euro jobs' are there that an Irish government minister would be in a position to line up for themselves? Those speculating about this never seem to be specific...



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,128 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    No words...

    Cost of new children's hospital to top €2bn, cttee told (rte.ie)

    At this stage of the project "3,000 rooms should have been completed", he said.

    Because of "a large number of snags", he said, "to date, 27 rooms have been deemed complete".

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,763 ✭✭✭antimatterx


    BAM should never get another government contract again.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,128 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    More ineptness from the 3 unwise men.

    Government criticised for giving housing update during Tubridy hearings (thejournal.ie)

    Government criticised for giving housing update during Tubridy hearings

    Social Democrats deputy leader and spokesperson for housing Cian O’Callaghan said: “This so-called progress report does not shed any light on how this government will get to grips with the crisis – rather, it presents 53 pages of rehashed information and political spin.”

    O’Callaghan added that there are some “glaring” omissions from the report. 

    “For instance, it contains no affordable housing delivery figures for the first half of 2023 and fails to mention that last year’s affordable housing targets were missed by some distance. It is also disappointing, but not surprising, that 13 actions in the Housing for All plan have been delayed,” he said.

    O’Callaghan continued: “The scale of delivery under this Minister for Housing has been pathetic.”

    He noted that only 323 affordable purchase homes and 684 cost rental homes were completed last year, far below the government’s target of 4,100.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,128 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    They wont need to. The got rich on the taxpayer.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    On top of what You say, surely penalties come into this equation? BAM should hang their heads in shame on this project, but also the government.

    NO final cost

    NO project closing date.

    WHAT A SHAMBLES



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    BAM seem to be a convenient lightening rod to deflect away from piss-poor management of this by the NCH board and by the Dept of Health.

    It appears that the initial tender wasn't properly specced out to begin with, and that there's been constant changes made to the plans as the project progresses. No contractor in the world would just suck up the costs if the client kept making changes to the plan, and looking for additional works that weren't covered in the tender.

    It's not BAM's fault that the NCH board and the Department don't seem to have known what they wanted when they tendered the contract and have been constantly moving the target since



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,648 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It all goes back to the site chosen. Essentially, building where it is, you are building on a brownfield site, and there will be extra unforseen costs.

    Connolly Hospital lacks public transport, which was a big no-no, but given the costs since, opting for the greenfield site of Connolly, together with public transport provision might have been cheaper.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭howiya


    Despite all the issues with the project we are better at building hospitals than public transport infrastructure. At least the hospital is currently being built. Lessons should be learned and all that but once its open hopefully it'll have a huge positive impact on the lives of the country's sick children.

    We spunk money away on plenty of stuff. Its strange that the focus of this (politics, media, society etc.) lands on the building of a children's hospital. At least there'll eventually be a hospital to show for this even if it is significantly over budget.

    That's not to say it shouldn't have been done better.

    In contrast we've spent up to €300m on the various iterations of the Metro projects without a block being laid.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    In contrast we've spent up to €300m on the various iterations of the Metro projects without a block being laid.

    In part because it is being meticulously planned and consulted on, the lack of which certainly does seem to have contributed to the spiralling costs of the NCH. Also the Luas cross city was built on time and on budget (though I guess there is an argument that the original planning was fairly stupid not to join them anyway...)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭howiya



    Luas Cross City was built during a time of relatively stable prices. I've no doubt if it was currently being built it would have overrun its budget and projected delivery date. That's not a criticism though, just an acknowledgement of reality. Covid delays, supply chain issues, inflation etc. etc.

    What I am critical of is that I don't see any new public transport infrastructure since Luas Cross City was built. Happy to be corrected on that if I've missed something.

    The idea that we could build the hospital in another location and have it connected to public transport in a meaningful way that would rival the connectivity at James seems fanciful at best.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    This whole thing is shrouded in controversy. For me Donnelly is a really poor MOH:

    Having a dig at SF is deflecting from the real problem - overcosted, no final date for completion. If this happened in a 3rd World country we’d be pointing fingers.

    Donnelly is a joke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Can’t understand Donnelly actions (or lack thereof) on this one.

    It’s a problem he has inherited, so it should have been an easy win for him in his first six months to properly eviscerate the poor planning from before his tenure and to do a big reset on the project with a “final” revised scope and one all-in pricing from BAM. Get whatever the actual final number is likely to be locked in, and out in public, all whilst being able to firmly blame his predecessors.

    Instead he seems to have kept long-fingering it, and so makes himself part of the problem too.

    The most baffling this is that he used work as a management consultant - stuff like this should be his bread and butter



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,648 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    He is bound as much as anyone by the original procurement process.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    And nothing in what I proposed would have interfered with that.

    The project has been plagued by constant changes to spec, which leads to BAM submitting variation reports and related cost increase claims due to scope variation (which is their right). The board then has to go through an approval process for each claim, all of which adds up to more and more time delays.


    Donnelly should have - in his first six months - mandated the NCH board to come up with a “final” final specification with no further variations in scope permitted. BAM would then have been asked to submit the costings for whatever this “final” final scope entailed that was in variation to from the original plans.


    It would have resulted in more accurate estimates of the full costs (and the full increases) coming to the fore earlier instead of the drip-drip of increase after increase; and would also have given a hard target end date. It also would make it harder for BAM and the NCH board to keep pointing the fingers at each other each time a further overrun or delay comes to the fore.



    Ultimate (and being politically cynical about it) it would also have given Donnelly the opportunity to say, the last guys made a balls of it - here’s the real cost. He’d had, at worst, avoided being blamed for the fiasco that the management of this project has descended to, and at best would even have gained credit for having acted decisively



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭howiya


    To be fair to Donnelly I'd imagine he and his department were a bit preoccupied in his first six months in office.

    The reason I don't want to be too critical of the Government on this is that I worry we will end up paralysed by fear of getting it wrong and the negative headlines etc and postpone future large scale infrastructure projects.

    Learn the lessons. Improve procurement and tendering for future projects. Go to market with a finalised plan for one. Take the politics out of it. SF raising it in the Dail every two or three months does nothing to advance the project. And that applies to Donnelly having a pop off SF too.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Its pretty poor politics all the same. He could at least be trying to get ahead of the story - and at least passing the blame to the original contract if that is indeed what's at fault.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,128 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I see Niall Collins is abusing expenses.

    Collins won’t address inordinately high expenses claim (ontheditch.com)

    Fianna Fáil junior minister Niall Collins won’t explain his inordinately high, tax-free, ministerial driving expenses claim for August 2022 – when the Dáil was in recess and his diary showed few ministerial engagements.

    For Collins’s claim for the month to accurately reflect the ministerial work he carried out, he would’ve had to have driven more than twice as much as the average taxi driver in Ireland. His total claim of more than €20,000 last year suggests the same.

    While his ministerial diary for August accounts for just over 900 kilometres of driving – he claimed for more than 6,000 kilometres’ worth. 

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,128 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I see the government are trying to blame the location and design of the Children's hospital for the ongoing delays and costs. They have known about the design and location for many years and yet they still dont know the final cost or the completion date. Stephen Donnelly said "nobody right now" knows the final cost of national children’s hospital. 6 years late and 3-4 times over budget already. 27 rooms have been "deemed complete" out of 3,000 based on BAM's commitments. 

    How much more will the people of Ireland put up with?

    The cynical move to release this chaotic news during the RTE committees was typical of FFG.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Claiming for 200km per day of travel, every day, for an entire month the Dail wasn't in session. Hes a completely dodgy character, he really needs to not get re-elected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    This the same clown with property clouds hovering over his head.

    Two td’s(?) in the one day caught cooking the books. Why am I not surprised?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,326 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    New ST/B&A poll out

    FF up 3 is all I can see beyond paywall



  • Registered Users Posts: 6 johnnysins100


    Sunday Times/B&A poll:


    Sinn Féin - 34 (nc)

    Fianna Fáil - 24 (+3)

    Fine Gael - 19 (-1)

    Greens - 4 (-2)

    Labour - 4 (-2)

    SocDems - 2 (nc)

    PBP - 2 (nc)

    Renua - 1 (nc)

    Aontú - 1 (+1)

    Inds/Others - 10 (nc)


    Fieldwork: June 28 -July 12, sample of 910 voters



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,648 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That looks like the current government being re-elected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6 johnnysins100


    Agreed, with inflation and energy prices set to fall and two giveaway budgets to come, the government should be quietly confident of re-election.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Would be nice if FF + FG plus a group of gene pool independents could club together and actually have some semblance of a common thread running amongst the Government.

    Most GP policies are incompatible with those of FF + FG (voters at least) and the newer the GP candidate the more extreme they seem to be getting.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,326 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Well maybe not this precise government, as God knows how many seats the Greens are going to come back with on 4% of the vote. But certainly a third consecutive government based on some form of agreement between FG and FF looks a distinct possiblity, to put it no stronger than that...



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