Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

As 17% of the population are non Irish I would say they are over represented in comparison and to rise given the influx of refugees !!

Yeah but will they have a coherent, unified national policy on immigration, or will they each be negotiating on an individual basis to block reception centres or whatever in their own constituencies? This is another area where I think your substack guy is taking too much for granted.

That's a very good question about how much the Independent's problems with the local effects of immigration - the pressure on school places, doctors appointments, rental accommodation - would carry over in to criticism of national immigration policy. Is there a divergence there.

I suppose one indicator that Independents would see local questions as requiring solutions at national level is they already do this with green policies.

They want green directives changed and overturned as opposed to just having them ameliorated by buying people off at local level.

Yeah I mean if even the likes of MacEntee are copping on it shows how far things have gone at this stage

Excuse me if recently covered. What is the current financial situation for say a Ukrainian woman here of working age with two children? In terms of any weekly support payments. I assume accommodation is still provided free of charge by the state. What about meals & living expenses, are they paid for out of allowance or free? I think free postage of packages back to Ukraine has ceased? Any other benefits?

What happens if this hypothetical adult & 2 children rent private accommodation - is that paid or do they have to cover it fully.

And finally if the person above works part or full time hours, how is this handled? I assume their employer will have them on the payroll and deduct PAYE/ PRSI etc? Does the receipt of earnings remove entitlements to payment supports.

I'm can see there are quite a few variables in above but it would be informative to get a good steer after a year and more as to how typically matters are working out from a financial and supports pov for war refugees. Refugees I should add that we are right to assist on the basis that hopefully they can return safely as soon as possible.

Just the basic facts re above.

Interesting questions try Mattie Mc Grath if its not racist to ask . I wonder do they still get any form of free transport .

Thanks and that sounds like it should be the case. Be interesting to hear on the other points I was wondering about from those who know of such things. And there are/ have been quite a number on the thread. This sort of information should be readily clear as it's public money involved one way or another.

The total cumulative number of arrivals (based on PPSN allocations) from Ukraine to Ireland on the 06 June 2023 was 84,613. This is a 3% increase compared to four weeks earlier (07 May 2023) and a 14% increase compared to the last report (12 February 2023 . They are still coming at an average of 500 per week .

Arrivals from Ukraine in Ireland Series 10 - CSO - Central Statistics Office

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/fp/p-aui/arrivalsfromukraineinirelandseries10/

I suspect its to prevent Ukrainians from moving to treasure Ireland for better benefits .

Visa-free travel for people with refugee status further suspended

extended suspension, European Agreement on the Abolition of Visas for Refugees (Council of Europe)

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/0b410-visa-free-travel-for-people-with-refugee-status-further-suspended/#:~:text=The%20suspension%2C%20which%20in%20effect,originally%20introduced%20in%20July%202022.

Who exactly is searching all that though? Could be easily lots of people trying to scaremongering.

Exactly. It could be all sorts of reasons.

Well can you advise of the current state of supports that are official?

"What is the current financial situation for say a Ukrainian woman here of working age with two children? In terms of any weekly support payments. I assume accommodation is still provided free of charge by the state. What about meals & living expenses, are they paid for out of allowance or free? I think free postage of packages back to Ukraine has ceased? Any other benefits?

And if the person above works part or full time hours, how is this handled? I assume their employer will have them on the payroll and deduct PAYE/ PRSI etc? Does the receipt of earnings remove entitlements to payment supports."

It's important to have accurate information, so as not to be exaggerating etc

That hardly addresses my example - real figures for monies and lists of benefits in kind would be useful. Hopefully you know them? We heard figures being bandied about last year and special arrangements for Ukr refugees but it'd be good to know how these are working now in reality and what changes/ amendments have been applies.

I can understand if you don't know the detail as it's about as clear as mud for the average citizen.

Thanks. I'm not sure if you can call to Citizens Information centres now, aren't most of them de manned and gone online, professional etc since Covid.

But I did find this: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/ukrainian-refugees-in-ireland/social-welfare-supports-for-ukrainian-refugees/

So it looks like my example of a Ukrainian mother & 2 children (war refugees) would get €278 a week or €1112 a month or €14456 annually - that is basic job seekers at €208 a week and child benefit of €280 a month.

Also likely to be housed centrally with cost borne by the state. If renting privately, can avail of rent supplement. Can also get One Parent Family payment and other normal social welfare entitlements.

I'm not sure if food at accommodations is still provided free, was initially but then reported that all or partial payment would be needed.

Given that accommodation for mother & two children for Irish citizen here could easily be €1200 a month down the country, that's worth €14,400 annually approx. So all in all, I estimate my hypothetical family would have €28,856 worth of basic supports/ income. That would be roughly equivalent to an ordinary person earning about €40K annually. Am I in the right ball park?

What happens then if children are minded by fellow refugee or are in state school and mother works in local retail or hospitality etc. Does she retain the above benefits and top up or are they taken off the job seekers etc?

"Admirable level of support" is one way of putting it.

I'd say more correctly Irish people are being treated as second class citizens in their own country.

Left wingers have also cottened on to this unequal level of support between the regular refugees (although I hate using that word) and our "friends from Ukraine".

If I had my way I'd restore a level playing field by sending every single one packing. Plenty of safe places in Ukraine and a lot of them return for holidays anyway.

Send the lot of them home!

From bing AI on the question of whether Ukraine is safe

"Ukraine is quite safe to visit, except for the Donetsk & Lugansk regions (where the war is). The major tourist destinations like Kyiv, Lviv, Odessa, Chernivtsi, Carpathians are generally safe except for the pickpocketers. Some of the relatively safe cities in Ukraine are Lviv, Ternopil, Ivano-Frankivsk, Uzhhorod, and Chernivtsi"

Let Zelensky house them in a safe part of the large country he is a leader of.

Not our problem to be honest. We are seeing our own country be overrun with "refugees" and economic migrants at huge costs to our exchequer and massive pressures being put on our ability to provide basic services for our existing population, never mind anyone else.

Maybe Zelenskyy should be making more speeches at the UN or lobbying greater supports from NATO rather than touring and inviting celebs for photo ops.

When life is apparently going on as normal in large parts of the country, even to where tourism is available (unlike in many parts of our country now), there's ZERO reason for "refugees" to be here from a safety perspective, let alone more still arriving and being accepted almost 18 months later. It's a regional/localised conflict that has been largely stalled and could drag on for years yet - are we supposed to just keep the doors open indefinitely?

Then there's the chancers arriving via the UK, Belfast or safe European countries with a sob story, maybe no ID, or in the back of a truck - why are we entertaining this group at all? Straight on a plane back to wherever they embarked from.

Ireland has no history to answer for, no moral guilt to assuage, and certainly no obligation to ruin our own country to "save everyone else". My sympathy, charity and tolerance has been steadily eroded as the problems this approach has and is causing have built week by week, month by month. There's a big wide world out there that's far better placed to offer options than a small island on the edge of Europe with a population less than even one major city and a socio-economic infrastructure on the verge of collapse.

Unless they arrive here with a job waiting for them, and the ability to support themselves and find (and pay for) their own accommodation and bills then the doors should be firmly shut until we have addressed the myriad of problems and needs that the political leadership and NGO lobbyists have heaped upon the ordinary citizenry of this State.

Enough is enough.