FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

I wonder would those backbenchers find the SDs much of an improvement, if they are the main alternative. They sometimes come across as more Green than the Greens, and ultra-woke in other ways...

The Greens are dead in the water. The June 30th Phoenix had a piece on the June Eurobarometer poll:

"The most recent Eurobarometer survey asked voters in Ireland to list what they consider to be the two most important issues facing the country. Housing (52%) the cost of living (51%) and health (35%) topped the list, with environment and climate change on just 4%."

They're polling at even worse than that as a party in polls these days too, down as low as 2%. They're going to get eviscerated in the next election, the Irish electorate just has no appetite for their very expensive agenda.

I actually think its a shame. Theres a huge opportunity for a theoretical Green party in Ireland that pushed positive/helpful environmental policy - accessible loans for home solar panel installation and EV purchase for every household, loans for household BER renovations, funding to rapidly electrify our public transport and other government vehicles, huge investments in green energy generation etc.

Almost everyone in the country would be completely on-board with all of that because it would improve the quality of life for everyone at the same time as reducing our carbon footprint.

But instead the Green party we have has focused on punitive environmental measures - increasing taxes, opposing household energy grants, reducing our national herd etc. All things that reduce our quality of life, damage the economy, and increase the cost of living for people.

I think it comes down to their very upper-middle class, urban, university politics leadership and support - they're just out of touch with what the vast majority of the country actually wants, and don't care to learn. They're happier to lecture the electorate on how wrong they are, and have hemorrhaged support, and even had a party split, as a result.

But by focusing on punitive measures all the Green party has done is completely destroy support for themselves in particular, and seriously damage support for environmentalism in general, in Ireland.

If after the next election we end up with an SF/FF government, or an FF/FG/Rural INDs government, how much progress do you think will be made on environmental issues? Both of those governments will have major incentives to put things on the long finger.

The Greens (and environmentalism in Ireland) would have been much better served focusing on positive measures, and growing support for themselves and their cause by doing so, by actually improving people's lives while reducing our carbon footprint.

Plus theres the whole practical moral argument - whats the point in chasing long term environmental goals to benefit people's quality of life if your punitive measures also seriously harm people's quality of life right now as a result? Thats why the Greens already had a split, because so many of their younger members felt they weren't doing anything to help the poorer parts of our society.

I am no big fan of the GP, but what taxes did they increase?

Please be specific in your answer.

The only tax I can think of is the carbon tax? That was introduced in 2010 by FF and the GP.

Catherine Martin sure knows how to do her expenses. She got tips from Dara Murphy (Fine Gael).

Catherine Martin says high mileage claim was made in error (ontheditch.com)

Green party minister arts minister Catherine Martin says her unusually high, tax-free, ministerial driving expenses claim for August 2021, a month when the Dáil wasn’t sitting and her diary showed only a handful of ministerial engagements, has been "rectified".

Martin’s ministerial diary for the month suggests just less than 200 kilometres of driving while her mileage claim was for almost 4,500 kilometres.

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No wonder FFGG blocked the reform bill.

We do need to reduce the purchase of cheap, throw away clothes.

We do need to drive less & to reduce the herd, in order to hit our climate targets.

I am not saying the Green Party are fantastic, but the points you raise are linked to societal changes that are unavoidable.

its not feasible for the govt to pay for everyone to upgrade their homes.

Home upgrades arent relevant anyway to culling the herd or too many people ordering cheap clothes on amazon.

Those things will be trimmed because they have to be, from an environmental viewpoint.

Greens, or no Greens.

No they can't, unless you want to stop building any public housing and cut social welfare by 20%.

The carrot is there in the form of existing grants, but the stick of higher carbon taxes is needed to drive change. FWIW, I think carbon taxes are too low.

Greens won't be wiped out, just you wait and see.

So there aren't enough construction workers to build homes, but (if only something something Green Party something something) there would be loads available to do BER upgrades and install solar panels?

Sure.

They've literally single handedly cost every household in the country 500-1500eur of their net income in the year 2023 alone: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863534/#Comment_120863534

There are obstacles and difficulties to overcome with most policies yes, but thats no excuse for the Greens putting absolutely no focus on positive environmental policies, instead focusing entirely on punitive ones.

They're not grants (though thats obviously an option for low income households), the idea used in other countries is easily accessible loans - available to everyone, with a flat 5% of your income deducted at source in an additional tax until the loan is paid off.

The whole problem with our current very limited grant system is its in effect only open to households that can afford to pay the upfront costs of 10-50,000 themselves and then claim a certain % back in grants. Which obviously limits it to very cash rich households. Which is not the most effective way of reducing our carbon footprint as a country.

The Green party argued that the most vulnerable families needed support... and so instead of those families getting a fourth 200euro energy credit that they would have gotten otherwise they got 0euro.

They sure did a great job helping the working class there alright.