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Jean Kleyn N/IQ

245

Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Sure, I would happily do so if I thought it was relevant. I don't owe them anything.

    I think pro sportspeople get plenty of training in speaking to the media and how to approach it and this often involves not being completely honest. I don't consider this impinging upon their character, they don't owe us anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,729 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Others may, including him and his family.

    Kleyn already suffered a lot from attacks on media and social media after the RWC in 2019 (even before the RWC when he was accused openly of being a mercenary who took a spot from Toner. to the point where he deleted his social media accounts for his own mental well-being. He has spoken about this, and Munster fans have supported him through this for the past few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,729 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I am taking Kleyn's statements at their face value. There has been no evidence provided by anyone, other than speculation, that he is not being truthful



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,729 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Well that's probably the difference between you and I.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Interesting. Would you take everyone’s statements at their face value? Have you ever been in a situation where someone told you something that you took at face value and wasn’t actually 100% true?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I think what someone says publicly and on record is generally closer to the truth than accepting what some anonymous poster claims in an effort to get a reaction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I think when some anonymous poster claims other posters are suggesting that a player is a liar in an effort to get a reaction, it should be called out when

    1. that isn’t what happened
    2. that poster has no additional evidence to back up this claim.

    Nobody knows what has been going on behind the scenes. Everyone is speculating. And so what if he was talking in the background? That isn’t a stick to beat him with. People are being overly defensive and suggesting that it’s an attack on him. He would have been stupid if he wasn’t open to that conversation. I certainly would be in my line of work. It’s how you advance in any career. I certainly wouldn’t go shouting about it to my bosses or work colleagues though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38 easymoneysnipa


    'Jean Kleyn is not an international standard player' having being proven to be absolute nonsense, as many blessed with eyesight could see for quite a long time has now morphed into 'Jean Kleyn is a liar'.


    Wonder what he'll be when Jacques N is trying to sign him next summer. A glow up on the horizon in the eyes of the currently very astutely skeptical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Rather than a new post, I'll repeat myself because you seem to want to mop up the water rather then fix the leak.

    I think what someone says publicly and on record is generally closer to the truth than accepting what some anonymous poster claims in an effort to get a reaction.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'd say the second the new rule was announced the possibility entered Kleyn's mind and no doubt SA would have likely contacted him in some capacity. I can't imagine why they wouldn't.

    It wouldn't surprised me at all if the first formal contact came after Kleyn was not named in the 42 man squad.

    For all we know Kleyn has had a conversation with Munster / IRFU and has some assurances regarding his future in Ireland. I hope he ends up at Leinster because the drama would be terrific. Also, if he does end up at Leinster I take back what I've said about him and Farrell was wrong not to pick him. If he goes elsewhere he's a big turncoat fecker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I'd say Noel Kelly contacted World Rugby to bring in the new rule.

    Then he contacted Rassie and asked him to consider bringing Kleyn back to play for SA, then Smith contacted Farrell to get him to drop Kleyn from all Irish training squads.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Doesn't matter what Kleyn says publicly. I suspect the first conversation about playing for SA happened a good while ago but either way it doesn't matter, he can make his own choices in life.


    How many times did Rassie say he was going nowhere?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I don’t see any reason to disbelieve Kleyn. He had already played for Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog


    There are still people who suspect the world is flat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    No reason to disbelieve him.

    Equally people often say things in interviews that aren't the whole truth.

    Only Kleyn knows the truth. The question is whether it matters. He made his choice, he's moved on, best of luck to him.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    No reason to disbelieve him.

    Just like there was no reason to disbelieve Declan Rice when he was kissing the Irish badge and saying 'There's no decision to be made. If I didn't want to be playing for Ireland, I wouldn't be here'.

    Situations change in life and people change their minds all the time. Jean Kleyn made what he thought was the best decision available to him when he moved to Munster, when he accepted a called up from Ireland in 2019 and when he accepted the called up for South Africa this year.

    Good luck to him but don’t be putting him up on a pedestal saying that the thought of switching back never occurred to him until he was named in the South African training squad out of the blue.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    On the balance of probabilities, with everything we know, I think that’s far more likely he’s telling the truth.

    Nobody’s putting him on a pedestal by pointing that out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Why are people taking the opposite views of what Kleyn says, is there an agenda to lead them to disbelieve him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog


    A pedestal!!!

    I mean wtaf, where is this coming from



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,729 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Complete different scenarios. Rice was negotiating with 2 different unions who both wanted him to play for him. Kleyn was asking to be selected for Ireland, Ireland rejected him (stupidly Imo). SA offered him a place and he took it.

    If Kleyn was going to lie, he would have pretended he was already in talks with SA and then there would have been pressure to bring him into camp before it was too late. It makes zero sense to secretly negotiate with SA and lie about it in interviews. Literally nothing for him to gain.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Or course he’s being put up on a pedestal. Some posters are adamant that there is no way that he might have said one thing publicly and be thinking something else privately. Things aren’t that black and white.

    The Declan Rice scenario is a good example of this happening recently. His circumstances changed as did Kleyn’s.

    One poster is accusing others of ‘calling him a liar in a round about way’ for suggesting he might have had contact behind the scenes from SARU to see if he would still be open for a call up. But why wouldn’t he? He’s South African. No one is criticising him for it, but it’s strange to see the lengths that some posters go to to defend him to say that it definitely didn’t happen due to something he said publicly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    there would have been pressure to bring him into camp before it was too late

    I think if Kleyn told the Irish management that he was in talks with SA, it's extremely unlikely they would have felt pressured to bring him into camp. Why on earth would they?



  • Registered Users Posts: 38 easymoneysnipa


    State of the people trying to act like the guy is some liar. “Eh, im just asking questions.”



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Some poster are adamant that there is no way

    some posters go to to defend him to say that it definitely didn’t happen

    If you’re including me in this, I’ve literally used the phrase “balance of probabilities”…



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Exactly the emotive language some seem to be using to defend him. Strange.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Do you think there’s only emotive language being used by those defending him? Out of interest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Ah here, stop digging.

    Using quotes of a player and saying it's not unreasonable to think that he's telling the truth is a long, long way from putting him on a pedestal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,729 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Taking someone at their word is such a leap that it involves putting them on a pedastal?

    It really is telling about how some people approach truth and honesty, in a purely transactional way.

    I'll usually give someone the benefit of the doubt that they're being truthful until they show me that they can't be trusted.

    Especially when they have nothing to gain from not being honest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,290 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Whether it was a surprise to him or not is irrelevant, the issue is that he was effectively released from Ireland and lots deserving players given a spot ahead of him, not a good strategy to win a world cup I think

    For what it's worth I think he wasn't informed until very recently as secrecy is golden with these deals



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,729 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It's not irrelevant to the aspersions about kleyns character



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Especially when they have nothing to gain from not being honest

    But maybe he does.

    We don't know when he made the decision to switch.

    If he only made it after the Irish RWC squad was announced, then no reason to fudge things.

    If he made it months ago, and was planning to join the Boks all the while people are berating Farrell for not picking him, then that isn't a good look for him at all.

    Again. No one here knows when he agreed to join SA. Unless I missed it, Kleyn has not said when it happened.

    Also again: it doesn't matter and I don't care. Whether he's fifth in line for them or fifth in line for us, it's unlikely to impact either country and it shouldn't be a stick for disgruntled people to beat Farrell with. But that's exactly what it has become.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,729 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    There is absolutely zero evidence of that.

    Kleyn said he was surprised by the call up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    There's zero evidence of anything.

    I don't think Kleyn said when he actually got the call. Maybe he was surprised back in February.

    But it doesn't matter. Good luck to him. People will twist it to stick the boot in on Farrell regardless. That's my beef. Marginal selections of fringe players being blown up into something they're not.

    Edit: and the guy making the call would be Rassie Erasmus, who's entitled to precisely zero benefit of the doubt when it comes to honesty or doing the right thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,733 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Sinister actions behind the scenes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Stick the boot in Farrell 😮


    Talk about using emotive language 🙊🙈



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I didn't say anything about emotive language.

    But I'd have said "sticking the boot in" is a pretty mild description of some of the stuff we've seen here the last few months. From a very small and very disaffected group of posters.

    Each to their own and all that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Such preciousness 🤣😂

    I think someone should ring Joe Duffy about bold those fans are.


    Talk about pedestals 😂





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I'm not remotely precious about it. I'm here long enough to know exactly where the priority lies for some posters and exactly how they'll react to perceived slights. And sure grand, it's not written in stone that being Irish must mean the Ireland team is your primary concern.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,729 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I have criticised Farrell for favouring cohesion over everything else, and for not building enough depth in all positions, and for relying too much on Sexton for the last 2 years when his chances of surviving the RWC without getting injured were low....

    Which of those meets the criteria of sticking the boot in to Farrell?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Which of those meets the criteria of sticking the boot in to Farrell?

    It doesn't, that's the whole thing here, one or two posters seem to dislike any questioning of Farrell and why a player hasn't made a training squad.

    I really don't get the uno duce, una voce mentality that some posters have around the national team, yet, when it comes to other players/teams it's railroad everything ahead and sh1t all over them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    "uno duce, una voce"....

    phog = Thornley

    Confirmed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    No doubt the two of you palled around in the public houses of Sandymount, eh Gerry?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Building pedestals with the sand on Sandymount Beach 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,290 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    If he made it months ago, and was planning to join the Boks all the while people are berating Farrell for not picking him, then that isn't a good look for him at all

    He's a rugby player, not a politician, he doesn't need things to look good for him, he just needs to play well and he can be honest



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  • Registered Users Posts: 38 easymoneysnipa




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    There absolutely was/is a need to hold back things from the media. Ignoring any potential contract implications, no coach wants a player who goes out of their way to cause controversy through being honest - both current and potential future coaches.

    It is incredibly naïve to believe every player is 100% honest and divulges everything in the media. Kleyn himself has stated things since he entered SA camp that he never even hinted at when he was in the picture for Ireland.

    The man 100% understandably has held back info in the past and of course he is continuing to do so today, as is every single sports person who speaks with the media. To believe Saint Kleyn is above it is hilarious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭phog


    😭😭😭


    I so want to be right



    😭😭😭😭😭



    I'll even make stuff up, just to be right




    😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭



    Mammy, why can't I be right just this once😭😭😭😭😭😭😭



    😭😭😭😭😭😭😭



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    To believe Saint Kleyn is above it is hilarious.

    At least get it right. It’s Santa Kleyn.



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