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why can't Hospitals enforce the 'no smoking' areas outside?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭standardg60


    They do, at least the one i know has a designated smoking area. But at the end of the day walking by someone smoking in the open air is not going to affect anyone's health ever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    what do the doctors do with all the diseased lungs when they cut them out of smokers? only I was thinking if they saved them up and had them suspended in nets over the entrances and then if the smoke sensor detects someone smoking it opens up the nets and all bits of diseased lungs and hearts fall on their head and slop down their face - too severe?

    more than likely wouldn't make them give up though because I have seen people given grave news that they have got cancer through years of smoking and what's the first thing they do? - go out of the consultants office and light up a fag!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭FGR


    No point in enforcing it unless consequences are serious.

    A fine? There's an element that won't pay it.

    Court? Very soft, administrative burden on wardens and guards would be in excess of any penalty imposed.

    Prison? Overcrowded for decades - so no.

    Bear in mind many in hospital have mental health issues and are not being provided with appropriate care - another issue from lack of investment in our health services. Penalising them won't help either.

    The sensible thing would be to have smoking areas - but of course that won't happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Why are you such a virulent anti-smoker?

    They are legal at the end of the day and thanks to the smoking ban, which i'm fully supportive of, no-one who doesn't smoke should have any fear of them. People are free to drink as much as they want, snort any old sh1te up their nose, take any amount of pills, and you just want to have an issue with smoking?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    I feel sorry for people that are so addicted to smoking that they cannot quit it and it has such a hold on them . I feel sorry for people who have illnesses from so many years of smoking or who have died from smoking or as a consequence.

    Um, I cannot really say that people are free to drink are harming others unless they become annoying, angry etc ... but people around me drinking does not affect my health, they (if they are a heavy drinker are just causing harm to themselves) same as them taking drugs , dont affect me directly same with taking pills , its all their choice and its up to them what they choose to do with their own life / body.

    But yes many a time Smokers have affected my health because of what they choose to carry on doing . Trivial as it sounds:

    Make my clothes smell of stale smoke when I dont even smoke myself, the inconvenience of trying to get past smokers as they are huddled in a doorway entrance/exit , having to see and step on fag butts on the floor of an entrance and on the more serious effects from other peoples choice to smoke:

    Streaming eyes, irritated throat, coughing , wondering what damage its causing me breathing in other peoples smoke.

    Smokers can try and justify they are not affecting others as much as they want, they can say "if we smoke outside in the air the wind takes the smoke away" or "when I smoke I am always considerate of others and blow the smoke the other way" - its a load of rubbish and there are only one type of smoker who is considerate , and that the ex smokers and the people that don't smoke are considerate to not only themselves (because they care about their health) but they also care about others as well, not polluting the air with secondary smoking that can cause a nuisance and health issues to everyone who is around them . we all deserve fresh clean air to breath in wherever we go and not to stink and change our clothes because of someone else's habit we have been around.

    i often find a lot of ex-smokers only realise after they have given up smoking for a while how blind they were to how antisocial it was and annoying to other people around them. A lot of the time people who continue to smoke (because they like it, or its a habit they cannot break or whatever reason) really do not care about other people around them most of the time. They feel it is a God given right that they are a smoker and everyone else around them better just get on with it and suck it up buttercup because a lot of people believe they have 'rights' and feel threatened if someone or some organisation or something dares to take their right to smoke away ....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Lack of investment in our health services? What?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Do you drive?

    Diesel/petrol fumes are noxious and they affect my mental well being considering whats going into my lungs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,571 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    It being the HSE, they'd first have to establish a Working Group on the Procurement of Piss

    And then obtain five tenders relating to the supply of piss, and another five relating to acquisition of the Blasting Devices.

    This will take approximately four years.

    In the end they'll end up paying twice the amount for half the required amount of piss.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    yeah i know what you are getting at - strangely I dont know what it is about diesel petrol fumes but if i spend an afternoon being around people who smoke when I get home my clothes and hair all smell of stale smoke and my eyes are stinging and I have a sore throat (even if they are smoking outside) they have only got to be near me (its a sod isnt it you would think the 'magic' fresh air would take all their smelly fag smell and whisk it away right up into the sky instead of attach itself to my clothes hair and skin!) but if i spend an afternoon in town shopping near all the cars with their diesel and petrol fumes i can get home and not smell it ingrained in my clothes hair and skin and dont have to immediately change my clothes as soon as I get home - it must be some kind of weird science!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,163 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    They are also all over 18, well educated and not doing anything illegal so it's their own business really what they do on their breaks.

    Alcohol can cause as much, often more harm than cigarettes, but you won't see people scorning medics in the pub for having a skinful of beer.

    I do agree with passive smoking not being ok so I think a designated area in a bus shelter type area away from public access is a fair compromise for 'campus' style workplaces like a hospital or university where the exit could be a 5 minute walk to the street.

    To thine own self be true



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Seriously, do you walk through smokers alley multiple times a day?

    I do appreciate non smokers not liking the stench and you being effected by the chemicals.

    But! I can't help feeling you're exaggerating a wee bit.





  • the ban never stuck or is enforced because it would mean staff who smoke leaving the hospital campus whenever they smoke, fights with patients who can’t leave the grounds when they’re dying for a smoke & the fact most smokers wouldn’t consider smoking outside to be of any consequence.

    Naturally smoking at the main entrance to a hospital or its ED is going to impact someone at least a bit. I think they were better off to designate a spot to smoke, like the airports and confine it to there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,886 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Easy fix: just stop treating smokers. They'll die off soon enough.


    And give it up with the "soo addicted" line. They could if they wanted to.

    mod

    warning - trolling

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,163 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    Just curious if you hold the same view of people who become ill due to alcohol consumption or ill due to overeating unhealthy foods?

    To thine own self be true



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,198 ✭✭✭✭Esel




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    To those who have issues with smokers, don't assume they could give them up if they really needed to.

    I hate every cigarette I smoke with a vengeance. I will spare you what I have tried to do in giving up.

    Yes, blocking doors outside hospitals is wrong. They should create a leper zone within the grounds. I was an advocate of pub and restaurant ban.

    For those smokers at hospitals, the last thing they likely need, with whatever is going on in the hospital, is to be denied the soothing of their addiction craving.

    Yes, smokers will die off and I hope shall not be replaced with other smokers. Many of us grew up in a time and society where smoking was glorified and difficult to avoid. Many of us have metabolisms that make it more difficult to cease smoking.

    So, a little bit of middle ground with regards to outside spaces, and with hospitals, maybe always assume that individuals are in their worst situation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,194 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    To be fair, they make the whole place non smoking. And smoking is an addiction. I'm a vaper now and was a smoker. Trying to get through a few days in hospital without smoking would have been horrible. And if it's a 10 minutes walk to the main road then people will just find somewhere else to somke. When I was in hospital in blanch, I used to walk around the corner and smoke there next to the car park.

    When my dad was dying from a stroke he was in hospital. And I'd have to walk outside and around the side of the hospital. I was still technically breaking the rules but at least it wasn't in front of people.


    The thing is that smokers will smoke, especially when stressed. A lot of the people you're passing who are smoking outside hospitals will be having a horrible time. making them not smoke just adds to it. That doesn't mean it's nice to have to walk through smoke either.

    Hospitals should have a smoking area. So everyone's happy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    if the smoking shelter is no right bang at the entrance though they dont seem to walk a few steps to get to the shelter. Think its been tried and failed before, a shelter provided and a sign directing them to the smoking shelter and people still smoked at the entrance/exit of the hospital.

    Smoking shelters , there is another thing. Loads of people smoking in one confined space together so they are not only damaging their lungs and whatever by smoking themselves on top of that they are breathing in other peoples smoke (secondary smoke) whilst in the shelter - double the concentration of carcinogenic they are breathing in .



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,935 ✭✭✭✭BPKS


    Staff regularly smoke where they shouldn't on the hospital campus. Management cant discipline them cos of union power.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    that's going to be only a very small section of people who smoke and hate themselves for smoking - doing a survey (and if everyone were completely honest , and strike them sown with lightning if they weren't, I bet you could hold a survey at the door and ask people why they came out for a smoke. a certain amount would probably say "I was dying for a fag" (thats not the same as I hate myself for smoking) some will say "just something to do/I was bored - just to kill time" - some might even say "its my right and you cannot stop me" and then to justify most probably bring out the "what about people who drink / eat and get fat" - not kinda getting to the crux why they actually stood outside the hospital doors for a smoke rather than just wait until they got home or at least right out into the open well away from the hospital areas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,163 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    But they are adults and they can make that informed choice themselves.

    I was a smoker 20 years ago and in my job then ("professional") we had a dedicated indoor smoking room.

    There was a cloud of smoke around us all but it was our choice to go in there. We were very far away behind closed doors from anyone who didn't want to be there.

    People have to be able to make their own life choices within the law and not harming anyone else.

    To thine own self be true



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    that cannot be excuse where do you stop? - what if they cause criminal damage or steal something or are abusive? they are not supposed to do that either, i am pretty sure they can discipline them on that





  • Union power? Give your a head a shake it’s because the flipping managers are smoking themselves.

    Good luck getting a union to organise any action cos staff can’t smoke anymore. 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,969 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    Anybody who smokes in public should be shot with balls of their own shyte.



  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭65535


    That's the truth Andy but currently HSE policy is to not look at the obvious which is Vape.

    Vaping now unfortunately has an even worse name due to the throw away vapes and children in secondary schools using them but not using them to reduce and then remove nicotine.

    Nicotine itself is a weed killer which is released by the Nicotina plant - it does this to kill slugs that attack it - the plant then sends another signal to birds to come and 'collect' these dead slugs or pests.

    With gradual reduction you can wean your brain off nicotine - this can not be done with tobacco but with a replacement.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tallaght Hospital used to have a large gazebo built to one side of the main entrance for smokers. It worked perfectly well, and it would be rare to see smokers at the actual entrance to the hospital.

    Then some genius decided to remove the gazebo. Now there are smokers anywhere they can find a bit of shelter, many of them patients in dressing gowns and slippers.

    I am a recovering smoker (I will never say I'm an ex-smoker, that's tempting fate) - at my worst i was smoking 50/60 a day, and I gave up 15 years ago. Haven't had so much as a single drag of a cigarette since.

    However, I never wanted to become that asshole ex-smoker who preaches about the evils of smoking. I will not judge anyone smoking who cannot give them up - including pregnant women, because I understand how strong the addiction to nicotine is. Some here clearly don't understand it, and never will.

    It took multiple attempts for me to break the habit, nicotine is acknowledged as one of the most difficult addictions to try and break, and pregnancy does not come with an automatic instant cure for nicotine addiction.

    Indeed, I've known doctors who advised pregnant women that if they couldn't manage to give up completely, to reduce to one or two a day, as the stress of trying to give up completely is not good for pregnant women or their unborn babies either.

    (eta) Tallaght also has/had a small smoking room tucked away on the top floor, for terminal patients. I don't know if it's still there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    You'ld probably start whining about balls of shite been thrown around the place then 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    I honestly wouldn't begrudge anyone who has to deal with the HSE a cigarette, whether they be staff or patients. Half of them probably never smoked before they walked into the place, and they don't need a load of fairies with no real problems telling them they can't smoke outside.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,265 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    When I was in the Mater I was on a reasonably high / upper floor. It was a significant walking distance to the ground floor exit / entrance…

    they did nothing to stop or discourage smoking in the toilets on my floor so I’d imagine trying to stop smokers outside would be futile…and a rather expensive and confrontational effort.



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