Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

Homosexuality was decriminalised in 1967 i doubt he struggled

For the purpose of this thread it becomes necessary to use such terms otherwise it becomes impossible to follow…

Yet I’m managing just fine? I did try to use those terms by way of avoiding that rathole you spoke of earlier, but I can’t make my brain bend that way. It’s not for the lack of trying, it’s just expecting my brain should be capable of doing the impossible. I’m not posting in good faith when I know I’m being dishonest. Much as I’m intrigued by the concept of neuroplasticity, it’s been demonstrated scientifically that ‘brainwashing’ is simply not possible - can’t make the brain do something it can’t.

I probably could have done with knowing that before ingesting copious quantities of drugs in my youth in an effort to switch off those parts of my brain, in order to impede my ability to be capable of rational thought, but that’s an anecdote for another day 😒

It is also best to remember that this debate is happening over a mere handful of cases of primarily amateur level mid-level athletes.

It’s not though, and I don’t mean to say that for the sake of disagreeing with you, but this debate is happening over policies, not individuals. It’s happening because those people had been suppressed in society, and when society can’t see it, they can’t understand it, they can’t know it. That’s why you’re having considerable difficulty supporting your hypothetical and yes, it is an extraordinary claim, and I don’t wish to see the devolution of women’s sports. It’s your theory, you’re responsible for it. I don’t see its utility so I have no interest in its testability.

I do however, have a vested interest in promoting Human Rights and all that ideology contains and continues to contribute to society, because the one thing you’ve got absolutely spot-on is that I have no interest whatsoever in modelling a society structured like Iran and all that entails. In that sense - no, I don’t care about how and where anyone competes, and I don’t think that women’s participation rates in sports will be impacted by it.

That already happens, but rather than concern myself with issues outside of my control, such as the welfare of women who wish to compete in sports in countries where they are prohibited from participating, and people who are transgender are forced to undergo dangerous surgical procedures with no regard for their mental, physical and emotional health, in order that these countries can claim there are no homosexuals among the population, I prefer to work more locally, more closely with people who are experiencing unfair treatment and difficulties in a society which is not structured to accommodate their needs and uphold their right to be regarded in law as equal human beings worthy of being treated with dignity and respect.

Being unable to use their words shouldn’t preclude anyone from being included in that conversation. Basic stuff like 😒

Cool. Four pages after my last post and I remembered why I don't usually post in this. No point. Not a debate. It's an I'm-right-you're-wrong-thread. 10/10 for those who created their own meaning from my words. As ye were.

Well now you’re just being disingenuous. Historically it hasn’t been the opposite of that case, and not until the Stockholm Consensus in 2003 was the idea even considered. And not until 2015 was the idea revisited and the policy restrictions were eased again, and eased again in 2022.

The extraordinary claim is that males can compete in the female categories without any ill effect on the sports for females, I understand that is harder to defend (thus trying to proclaim the opposite as extraordinary).

Harder to defend? Again I’m not going to defend an argument I never made. You want reassurances against a claim you put forward, I can’t give them to you, nobody can; what I can do however is point out that as society has evolved, women’s participation in sports has increased, and with continued investment in women’s sports, they will continue to develop. There is no requirement to measure that development using men’s sports as the yardstick. What anyone else can do is support your efforts to develop women’s sports and encourage women’s participation in sports if the participation of women in sports is important to them.

And, as has been pointing out numerous times, there is no human right to compete in a category you do not qualify for, whether the category is age, gender, weight or skill level. The rules for sports are quite clear in this regard (including having rules around completely legal drug taking, for example which have been tested in numerous courts already).

That’s an answer looking for a question. Nobody has put forth the idea that a human right exists to compete in a category which they do not qualify for. And it is disingenuous to infer that the rules are set in stone, incapable of change. The rules in law in the relevant jurisdictions where sports are played are just as clear, and they too are subject to change as society evolves. It’s for this reason for example that marriage equality came about, in spite of doommongers predictions about the future of Irish society and their ability to find a useful idiot who supported their claims. No idea what Paddy Manning is up to these days but he’s probably still waiting for the downfall of civilised society in order to say I told you so.

No need at all for the caveats, I think we understand each other well enough at this point. Your counter-claim was way off is all.

You brought up the issue, I’m not seeing why you’re now attempting to argue it’s irrelevant, particularly when it forms the basis of your objections. In real-world terms your hypothetical doomsday scenario is found to be wanting is all.

I’ve not fallen down any trap as I haven’t referred to anyone as a bigot, not my thing, I’ve got plenty of my own prejudices to contend with and frankly I don’t care for arguments from authority in any case, but if anyone were using ideas founded in bigotry to justify their beliefs, claims, arguments, whatever you like - I can’t say I’m shocked that they are inevitably identified as bigots! You make it sound like anyone should be shocked by this. It’s not exactly a revelation, is it?

Petrillo just came second in the 200m. Curious that she doesn't run with a guide. T12 is a visually impaired category.

The link is still there, but the site software hides it, if it's tagged (I guess) as a broken link, which it is. If I try to edit the post it appears briefly and disappears. So, the system wants rid of it. I suppose I could do that to correct the record. But, does anyone care enough? I doubt it ..

This thread has shown me that there are grown adults out there that have less knowledge of biology that primary school children.

"You'd have to wonder about the defenders of this policy -- what level of destroying women's sport would be sufficient to change their minds?"

I strongly suspect that for some it comes from a place of meaning well but not understanding the ramifications of their actions.

For some it is a way to show they are intelligent, as they are too sophisticated in their thinking to distinguish people based upon their sex.

Then you have those who are down right misogynistic and use this as a cover.

Then there will be those who are just going with what they seem to think is the public opnion, or views held by their peers.

I think they deleted the tweet as the race was actually a semi-final. The final was later today and she came third.

Are you visually impaired? Maybe consider opening your eyes if not ..

I think it's because the system recognises it as a media (twitter) link and because the tweet was deleted, the link is broken, so it hides it. If I try to edit it, the link appears briefly and then disappears, like it wants me to confirm deleting it.

Has become? It's a cesspool of conflicting agendas, US social and racial issues that have no place anywhere else but which we keep having to deal with anyway, and narcissists and attention seekers looking for validation.

A reliable source of information isn't something I would have ever associated with the platform.

So this Italian person couldn't place in men's events suddenly changes gender and starts breaking records in women's Paralympics events

How suprising

You’re responsible for posting it, obviously; what you’re not responsible for is falling for reduxx media’s… effort. I’ll call it that.

Less seriously, they deleted the tweet because someone, somewhere, had an ounce of sense and it must have occurred to them it was a really, really bad idea to go there, for a whole host of reasons, not limited to the PR backlash from their intended target audience who take great exception to the idea that they would set their sights on people with disabilities. That’s a lobby group in the US and the UK that nobody wants to piss off! 😂

And you pointing out the fact that Petrillo wasn’t using a guide wasn’t an issue, I could totally understand why anyone would wonder why Petrillo didn’t have a guide and the rest of the competitors do. My point in response to that was that they’re not required to have a guide, commentators even pointed it out at the beginning of the clip, and I could totally understand you missed it. I was referring to the fact that reduxx had made the point, in their article, for the reasons I stated.

What I don’t believe is that reduxx care about the truth, because if they were actually at all interested in the truth, they wouldn’t have used the example they did to promote their agenda. It’s so badly misguided on so many levels, and then they didn’t even bother to do their research. To see what I mean, here’s the Tokyo Paralympics women’s T12 100m event:

Their guides also get medals.

Then there was this nonsense:

Petrillo, born Fabrizio, was competing against Cuba’s Omara Durand, Venezuela’s Alejandra Perez Lopez, and Germany’s Katrin Mueller-Rottgardt. Amongst the competitors, only Petrillo was running without an athletic guide — a runner intended to assist the visually impaired athletes safely make their way through the course.

It’s not a fcuking obstacle course, the reason why some athletes need a guide and some don’t, becomes clear if one actually considers what is meant by the T12 category 😒

I genuinely didn’t want to be the asshole that points out what was obvious to me, expecting it should be obvious to everyone else whom it was obvious had never before even heard of the T12 category, but it took me all of two seconds on google to confirm that competitors eligible for the T12 category were partially sighted, visually impaired, not completely blind. That’s why I said I don’t know that there’s anything much to the idea of Petrillo running without the assistance of a guide - could be any number of reasons.

That’s why I don’t blame you for the false start caused by reduxx tripping over themselves to be first.

I know, there must have been some craic in that office going back and forth in deciding whether or not they go there 😂

What I’m saying is that it doesn’t mitigate my point that they wanted to be first, then deleted the original tweet that made them look utterly stupid, and posted that one which makes them look just a little less stupid, IMO, obviously. It still has the intended effect of driving eyeballs to their website, where their about section says exactly what they’re about -

Pro-Woman.

Pro-Child Safeguarding.

Anti-Bullsh*t.

That last one tho… at least they have a sense of humour about themselves 😁