Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Which only goes to prove that all that spiel about NATO encroachment, and protection of ethnic Russians in Donbass etc. was nothing except a cover story for Putin's real plan to take Ukraine back under his control.

You continually repeat this baseless nonsense about Boris Johnson.

You have been asked to support it, and you can't.

They had not "practically signed a treaty" when there was no finalised text of a treaty, there wasn't even any agreed understanding of how Donbas, Crimea etc would be handled. This is just a Russian lie you repeat without merit or foundation.

Similarly you pull figures out of nowhere for casualties. Vague mentions of 'reports', which are just weasel words.

I don't know where you are getting your news from but they appear to be making stuff up and are actively spreading disinformation and Russian lies.

I have posted quotes from Ukrainian sources on why there was no deal - Zelensky had no mandate to trade away territory. Nobody trusted Russia to abide by any deal. All that Johnson said was well we don't trust Putin to abide by any deal either.

Your claims have no credibility. But you will no doubt continue to ignore the evidence presented to you so that you can continue spreading this Russian lie.

This is the evidence which contradicts the Russian lies you continually spread, and which when presented to you you do not engage with. And it has been presented to you multiple times on this forum. So clearly so you are making a bad faith argument here.

Britain’s prime minister hadn’t come to Kyiv to order a termination of the peace deal; this was advice at best, and as such, his scepticism about Russia’s trustworthiness wasn’t unique. There were strong concerns within Zelensky’s closest entourage that the Kremlin wouldn’t stick to an agreement for any longer than it suited its interests. The risks of signing the Istanbul agreement were high for Ukraine: key provisions, to do with the status of Donbas and Crimea, couldn’t be agreed until a later meeting between the presidents of the two states. Zelensky and his negotiators’ most important worry about the Istanbul agreement was, Romaniuk said, that “Ukrainian society might not accept such a deal”... With Ukrainian officials and commentators speaking out against the deal at the time, Zelensky must have understood that he had no mandate for territorial concessions to Russia.

https://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article7852

You left out one aspect of the missile crisis though.

When are Ukraine getting the short range nuclear missiles to first strike Russia I wonder?

The former Baltic SSRs and Warsaw Pact countries have all been in NATO a long time now, and none have nuclear weapons placed on their territory afair.

I think there is only one party that has changed nuclear posture since war began and is moving (or has moved) some more of its missiles closer to Europe [EU members etc.] for executing a first strike (by emplacing some in Belarus).

Keep seeing the same comments for the last year and a half, here's a few translations

"I just want peace"

Translation: I want countries to force Zelensky to give land to Putin to temporarily buy time until he's is ready to invade again

"The West needs to stop arming Ukraine"

Translation: The West need to abandon Ukraine and therefore enable Putin's invasion

"This war between NATO and Russia"

Translation: I want to blame NATO for Putin's unilateral decision to invade his neighbour.

"Both sides.."

Translation: Democracies of Europe/Ukraine/The West are on the same level as Putin's totalitarian corrupt regime.

Wow ,

Thats something straight out of the COVID or conspiracy theories forum is that you cheerful,egg or whatever other accounts used to spew the same nonsense

None of the experts you vaguely cite support the specific false claims you are making on this thread.

You keep posting articles but they are either vague or contradict your claims.

I pointed out that you left out this part of the article you cited which contradicts your claims about the supposed treaty being practically ready to sign and only stopped by Boris Johnson.

This is a direct quote from the article as to one of the reasons treaty talks were stopped:

"The first thing was the revelation of the atrocities, rapes, murders, massacres, looting, indiscriminate bombings and hundreds and thousands of other war crimes committed by Russian troops in the temporarily occupied Ukrainian territories."

I asked you politely for an explanation

You have offered none.

It is reasonable to presume that you have read the article as you have cited it multiple times.

Therefore I now have grounds to state that you have lied and deliberately mislead in your posts re: the article contents.

You are a proven liar.

I include the article link below as proof of your lies:

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/05/5/7344206/

There was no agreement not to expand NATO East, Poland and other other Baltics states were free to make their own choices.

Yes it is your lie. You are the one dishonestly misrepresenting the article contents by deliberately omitting key parts of it. I do not make this accusation lightly but I have provided the evidence to justify it.

You are now quoting a 'new' article which just quotes the original article!

This is the part you are deliberately leaving out because it contradicts your misrepresentations:

"The first thing was the revelation of the atrocities, rapes, murders, massacres, looting, indiscriminate bombings and hundreds and thousands of other war crimes committed by Russian troops in the temporarily occupied Ukrainian territories."

Remember - this is a direct quote from the original article as to one of the reasons treaty talks were stopped. And the article does not support your claim of a practically signed treaty.

Your claim is a lie, without foundation and without merit.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/05/5/7344206/