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Nigel Farage cries persecution, nobody wants to be his banker after ties to Russia

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    So it looks like Farage is being persecuted for his political views.

    Ridiculous of Coutts to do this nobody would know he's a customer of theirs so how is it causing reputational damage for them like they have tried to claim (the only time we heard their name in connection with him is when they refused his business)

    It's also ridiculous because like most banks I would imagine they have done business with much worse figures than him.

    Anyone who is in favour of this I hope you'll be similarly in favour of banks refusing to do business with left leaning politicians .You can't make an argument in favour of him being targeted for his political views and say its wrong to do it to people whom you agree with.Targetting of people by private business because they disagree with the favoured political views of the day is the first step towards facism/totalitarianism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Anyone who is in favour of this I hope you'll be similarly in favour of banks refusing to do business with left leaning politicians

    Why though? I don’t understand why businesses such as banks (or anyone) should be forced to offer their services to anyone.

    I am trying to think of a left wing equivalent to Nigel Farage, but I can’t. Maybe you could suggest one? Then we could try and figure out a business that could justify withdrawing their services due to this lefties beliefs.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I smell a rat. If he was a true victim, he'd have reported his bank to the regulator and let them do their thing. I've no idea where this document came from or if it's been tampered with.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Jack Daw



    How about Jeremy Corbyn , I mean he's antisemitic (according to the Labour party itself) so maybe he should have his bank account cancelled for that reason.

    You can apply the reasons for cancelling Farage's bank account to anyone you dislike if you want to, doesn't matter if the reasons are true or not you just have to pretend they are true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    Thanks for that.

    The reason given is 'Reputational risk', i.e. being associated with Nigel Farage is bad for business. He should also be happy that no evidence of links to Russia were uncovered.

    I do find it interesting that while Farage is considered a reputational risk for Coutts (he was a known customer, he'd tweeted about being one, it's mentioned in the document), they were willing to off-load him to other banks in the group. Are NatWest customers the type of people who want to have Nigel Farage in their bank?

    Two other points popped up that were also interesting: Farage is seen to be close to the LeaveEU guy, whose name escapes me, whose own finances are under suspicion. And the Russia Report. The UK Gov released a report that never actually looked into possible Russian interference on elections in the UK.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    I don’t think anyone believes Corbyn is actually anti-Semitic. He was classed that because of his support of Palestine. Most of Ireland would officially be “anti-Semitic” if that was the case.

    But OK, if a known anti-Semite had their bank account cancelled, I don’t think anyone would mind.

    Did you think the baker had a right to refuse the gay couple’s cake? That was the classic example of a business withholding service from a customer and most on the right side of the aisle sided with the baker. Strange to think they might now side with the customer on this one.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Reputational risk makes no sense. I'd not idea Coutts even existed until this thing broke. This city has been sloshing in Saudi and Russian money for decades. It seems baffling to me that Farage's views on anything matter one whit to a London bank like Coutts.

    You might buy Ben and Jerry's or Tony's Chocolonely for ethical reasons but when you're looking to invest, all that matters is the ROI.

    The name that escapes you is Arron Banks by the way.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    It's not specifically about people's beliefs per se, it's about whether the potential loss of business or damage to the bank's reputation by having such a high profile customer is worth it.

    Coutts believe having Farage as a customer is not worth it. It's a business decision.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭Shoog


    No one would take such an action against Corbyn because he would defend against it and win, there is not a shred of credible evidence that Corbyn is anti-semitic. The accusations against Corbyn were all Trumped up to prevent him coming to power and get their establishment goon into the Leadership.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Jack Daw



    But it's bullsh1t, Farage would have no impact on their business or reputation, they also certainly have had dealings with much worse individuals than him. This is just an excuse, they don't like his politics so we'll punish him for it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Jack Daw



    It doesn't matter whether they are true or not all that matters is they could attempt to make a reasonable argument against him and make it not worth his while to bother with them and go elsewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,763 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Not a shred of evidence, except for his defence of anti-semitic murals (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43523445), his praise for anti-semitic writings by Hobson (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/01/uk/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-ja-hobson-foreword-intl-gbr/index.html).

    Being charitable to Corbyn, the best you can say is that he has a track record of turning a blind eye to anti-semitism.

    It's sad indictment of the moral compass of many of his supporters that they continually try to dismiss all this as an anti-Corbyn conspiracy. It's the same moral blindness that the supporters of Farage and his ilk apply to ignore his countless faults



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Quote from the alleged Couts Document

    • At one point the dossier records that Mr Farage is 'at best' seen as 'xenophobic and pandering to racists, and at worst, he is seen as xenophobic and racist'. 'He is considered by many to be a disingenuous grifter,' it adds. 

    Not seeing anything that aren't fairly widely held opinions about Farage there to be honest.

    They don't have to be "true" for them to be commercially damaging , they just have to be a widely held views and the above absolutely all are for Farage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Think you mean Aaarn Banks. A proper dodgepot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    They seem to think he would. They also rightly predicted that he would go public. Even so, they feel that being associated with him is not worth it in terms of what he brings to them as a customer.

    I imagine it was only produced for internal use so they could have been far more blunt about it.

    Additionally, it could very well be that they have other dodgy customers but we don't know because they keep their mouths shut about it or are less high-profile. Farage is a flak magnet, so much so that his business is not deemed as worthy as other potential, dodgier customers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Any news lads, just catching up on it now ?

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Ah the usual: "It's not true, but even if it is true he deserves because I don't like him"

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    But OK, if a known anti-Semite had their bank account cancelled, I don’t think anyone would mind

    Many are pushing for a cashless world, and if you want a cashless world, literally everyone should have a right to access banking. Unless of course you want some system where "bad people" aren't allowed access to banking, which would mean they'd have no access to anything. That would be quite dystopian to say the least.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,232 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Actually, the man has a LONG track record of fighting anti-semitism and other forms of racism over decades of being in British politics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Looks like Gordon Brown was proven correct about Mr. Paypal.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Looks like Gordon Brown was proven correct about Mr. Paypal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    But we’re talking about Coutts here, not a normal bank.

    He was offered a NatWest account wasn’t he?

    Back to the bakery. Did you support the owner choosing not to bake the gay couple a wedding cake? It’s exactly the same. Coutts said, “we don’t want to serve your type, we don’t want our brand associated with the likes of you” (obviously paraphrasing). The bakery said, “we don’t want to serve your type, we don’t want our brand associated with the likes of you”.

    The difference was the bank went on to offer a boring “normal” account with one of their other companies, but the bakery (afaik) didn’t offer to make the homosexual couple a plain cake.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    He can access banking still though. Basic banking. Not privileged banking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Coutts has always been a bank that prides itself on its political agenda as a "bank of the queen" and the upper class. A bank wanting rich people may just seem like good business but the Coutts brand focuses on the British class divide and the idea that it's customers can brag about being "the elite"

    If the idea is "I want to join because lord Buldington and lady Saxo-Coburg are members" then it should come as no surprise when their elitism bites you on the arrse.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Aaron Banks was found innocent of any association with the Russians in a lawsuit against an Observer journalist.

    People are talking about this story being about speculation made by Farage -- so how could his word be trusted -- when the same critics have offered nothing but baseless speculation over the same period.

    That document dispels many of those myths propagated through this thread, and it supports Farage's initial claims when this story first broke.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They should be true if a bank is to take someone's account away from them, not because some loud, vocal minority through the race card at anyone they disagree with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I wouldn't dispute the fact that they didn't want the odious little twerp because he's an odious little twerp. More power to their elbow.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The ONLY consideration a bank is going to make is "Does this hurt our business?" and having weighed up the available data they decided that Farage wasn't worth the potential risk.

    All they'd have to show is that they felt their business was being impacted by association with Farage , no obligation for them to prove any of the things being said about him. If they can show that the lost X business because certain customers or potential customers did not like Farage then that's that.

    It's a pure Cost/Benefit analysis.

    We make £X from Nigel Farage and his accounts but we lose £Y because other people don't do business with us because of him.

    If Y is greater than X then Farage is gone , end of story.

    And clearly Couts feel that Y is indeed greater than X so off he goes down to standard pleb banking where his public image doesn't impact business.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    What I think a lot of people haven't grasped is the inverted decision-making when it comes to PEPs, where the onus is on disproving risk. I have a hunch that Farage has been receiving payments from US-based political groups, which would count against him almost as much as alleged Russian funding.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Page 39:

    I wanted to make you aware of a commercial exit decision we have made on the account of Nigel Farage. The relationship has been below commercial criteria for some time and upon review of Nigel's past public profile and connections, the perceived risks for the future weighed against the benefits of retention, the decision was taken to exit upon repayment of an existing mortgage.

    So, he breached the Ts & Cs and now he's grifting again.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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