Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

Have england even got a national anthem,i stand corrected but i thought i seen somewhere that gstk was the british anthem and england football fans just adopted it.i,m probably a mile off

No idea.

All I know is they use it and that it was never the official anthem of NI. It doesn’t have an agreed flag or anthem

I don’t disagree with you but it’s just the same as irfu fans carrying the flag of 26 counties when the team is 32 counties. But as francie says there is no agreed flag.

Francie never said any such thing.

With the agreement of Ulster RFU the IRFU use the flag of Ireland because the team is ‘Ireland’ and NI has NO agreed flag or anthem.

It will sink in eventually that this is an agreed compromise with inbuilt inclusive gestures which NI supporters and players and the relevant association (Ulster RFU) agree with and are happy with.

‘Bow their heads’ indeed!

it would seem then logical to use the last official flag of the 32 counties. The Irish tricolour has zero relevance to a 32 county team.

so francie seems to think it is appropriate for England to use the Uk flag, or indeed any piece of cloth they choose, as long as they agree to use it seems to be his theory. They could actually use the tricolour if they wanted.

This is exactly what you said “It will sink in eventually that this is an agreed compromise with inbuilt inclusive gestures which NI supporters and players and the relevant association (Ulster RFU) agree with and are happy with.”

I am simply applying your policy to England and the flying on the union flag - unless maybe you have an issue with consistency on this as well.

what’s good for the goose, and all that

But England was not partitioned and did not need to come up with an agreed compromise or agreement.

Did you not know this either?

I think you need to check your history. It has had several flags and several borders in various places over time. But again that would not suit your narrative.

Deflect all you want. Won't change any of the facts below.

1. They use it.
2. It was NEVER the anthem of NI.

The IFA never sought anyone's views on what anthem to use because at the time Unionism was supreme and like in many other things didn't feel the need to ask or compromise.

Times have, of course, changed, and they cannot do it anymore because (see No. 2)

You keep telling us what you are doing to create a warm house for the other side. Remove GSTQ/K, end sectarianism etc That is 'uniting' two sides in support of one team.

Then you say it can never be done in a UI when we have shown how it can be done with the IRFU success.

You are confused or not genuine IMO.

And I never said boo about you supporting England, knock yourself out.

Which is the definition of 'uniting' people.

It has been done here in Ireland already, two sets of supporters joined together to support one united team in the IRFU = FACT

YOU said that could not be done in a UI when we have already proved it can be.

And no matter how you pretend/deflect/divert - NI is the registered team not the UK and NI has NO official or otherwise, anthem = FACT

It matters not a jot what you as a Unionist sees as your anthem, it is, as we know, not just your 'wee country'.

*Funny how you always want to 'move on' when confronted with facts you cannot get around.

You may be bored, you are also wrong and it shows. You should bow your wee head. 😉

Moving on because you cannot counter the facts put in front of you.

We have proven beyond doubt that in a UI that there can be Irish sporting teams where supporter and player are happy.

Despite your bogus ‘heads bowed’ claims respect for the dual anthem and a choice of the tricolour or 4 provinces of Ireland flag is shown. No reason why it cannot happen soccer if the bigotry and sectarianism is put to bed in history.

Why would that happen?

If the British pulled out in the morning, maybe there would be uncertainty, but that is not going to happen.

Primarily because if anyone has learned lessons, it is the British. They no more want a shitshow and a failed UI, to deal with than anyone else does. It's in nobodies interests except belligernet Unionism and partitionism that a UI fails. Neither the Irish, British, the rest of the EU, US etc. benefit from a failed UI.

The Irish and British governments are friendly governments over and above the heads of any belligerents/partitionists and the transition will take place in this atmosphere.

The British tacitly withdrew when they signed the GFA, they are over NI and IMO gradually pushing NI away. In it's most simple sense you can see this in the way Charles relates to once former enemies - SF. The British and indeed, SF have moved on.

A transition that suits both countries will be negotiated. It will be easier than you think.

With regard to you continually referring to the unionist community in Northern Ireland as "belligerents." I find this choice of language offensive and divisive. It creates a negative and inaccurate stereotype and makes constructive dialogue impossible

Labeling an entire community as "belligerents" only serves to alienate and antagonize, making it difficult to find any common ground

we clearly have different viewpoints, but i don’t understand why you fear engaging in discussions with empathy and open-mindedness. Dismissing the concerns and experiences of the unionist community will certainly hamper progress and/or reconciliation and bolster opposition to a Ui.