Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Why is it as Humans that we have not yet come up with a way to measure speed?

  • 18-07-2023 10:58am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,837 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    For instance if a vehicle is doing 100kph that just says that if you stay in that vehicle for an hour you will have covered 100 kilometers. It does not actually tell you the speed the vehicle is travelling at.

    If you do 60 kph or 120 kph and it is constant for that hour then it just tells you how much you covered in that hour but not the actual speed that you were going. Its just the force you were applying to cover that distance.

    So you have the distance you covered and the time it took you to cover that distance if it was constant but no actuall measurement of the speed it took to do that.

    Maybe I am just overthinking all this lol.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,902 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    I don't think anyone could ever read that post and accuse you of overthinking

    Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, dark mode, and more). Now available through your browser's extension store.

    Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/boardsie-enhancement-suite/

    Chrome/Edge/Opera: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/boardsie-enhancement-suit/bbgnmnfagihoohjkofdnofcfmkpdmmce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭pah


    Speed = Distance / Time

    = m/s

    km/hr

    m/hr


    etc

    Do you suggest a new unit of measurement such as speeds?

    E.G. - I got to work early travelling at 135 speeds


    edit: on reflection you might be onto something - E.G. - knots



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,138 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    If you travel 100km in one hour, then your average speed is 100km/h. Of course, there may be parts of the journey where you're travelling slower than that, and parts that you're travelling quicker.

    But if you're using a device to measure your speed in real time (speedometer, GPS, etc), it will tell you your current (instantaneous) speed (to within a certain tolerance of accuracy) over the course of the journey. It will show you starting off at 0 and ramping up to 100km/h, then maybe slowing down to 80km/h taking a bend and speeding up to 120km/h coming out of the bend and onto a straight. It's dynamically measuring your speed as you travel.

    As pah said, speed is the relationship between distance and time, but that doesn't mean that you have to have travelled 100km in an hour to calculate that you're travelling at 100km/h. You could hop in your car and hit the accelerator and 15 seconds later your speedo would show that you're travelling at 100km/h, even though you've only travelled a few hundred metres. It doesn't mean that you need to gave travelled 100km for it to calculate that.

    Its just the force you were applying to cover that distance.

    When you're measuring speed, you're not measuring force at all. The force required to move the object to or at a particular speed would depend on the mass of the object, friction, wind resistance, etc. There would be more force required to move a truck to a speed of 100km/h than to move a bicycle to 100km/h (in the same conditions).

    If you do 60 kph or 120 kph and it is constant for that hour then it just tells you how much you covered in that hour but not the actual speed that you were going.

    This is exactly what speed is. Speed is the rate at which an object covers distance, so you can't measure it without referring to rate (time) and distance. I think you're getting hung up on the difference between average speed (total distance covered divided by the time interval) and instantaneous speed (observed snapshot of measured speed at a distance approaching zero) . But both can be easily measured.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,472 ✭✭✭✭Grayson




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,282 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Nah, he'd have figured it out by now with a few wraps of daycent gear 😉



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭Irish_wolf


    If you really want to delve into this topic you should look up the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Turns out some very smart people have already tried to find the answer only to come up against a fundamental limit of the universe.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,340 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Of all the strange questions by certain posters. This takes the biscuit. I’m out of this thread at 126km/h (speed measurement).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭davetherave


    For instance if a vehicle is doing 100kph that just says that if you stay in that vehicle for an hour you will have covered 100 kilometers. It does not actually tell you the speed the vehicle is travelling at.


    That is exactly what speed is


    Distance = Speed x Time. If Usain Bolt is running at at 12 metres per second for 9 seconds, he has run 108 metres.

    Time = Distance / Speed. If Usain Bolt ran 108 metres at a speed of 12 metres per second, he ran for 9 seconds.

    Speed = Distance / Time. If he ran 108 metres in 9 seconds, his speed was 12 metres per second.


    If you travel 87 Kilometres in 38 minutes and want your speed in Km/H. First convert the 38 minutes into hours by dividing by 60 and then your speed will be 87 / 0.63 = 138 Km per Hour.


    You could ask how long does it take a car going 138 Km/H to travel 87 Km. Distance divided by speed. 87/138 = 0.63 of an hour.

    What distance will a car travel if it is moving at 138Km per hour for 0.63 of an hour. 138 Km per Hour * 0.63 Hours = 87Km.


    If a caterpillar can travel the length of 13 AA Batteries in 42 seconds, how fast is it travelling in AA/Min? We want the speed, we know the distance expressed in AA Batteries, and we know the time in Seconds. Convert the time to minutes (0.7). 13/0.7 = 18.57 AA/Min.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,426 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    It’s all relative, generally speaking.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭nachouser


    I feel the need, the need for the bus that couldn't slow down.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,202 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,121 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Aircraft have two ways of measuring it,

    Airspeed and ground speed.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,121 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Of course the real question is...

    "What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,886 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    I have one coming up for possessing speed, same question?

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,295 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    100 Kph is Mach .0081. Sorted



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,596 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Tell me you don't know how speed is measured by... telling me you don't know how speed is measured.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,390 ✭✭✭Cordell


    But we do have a way to measure height. It could be barely, it could be not at all, it could even be as a kite. Speaking of, pitot tube - static port instruments are one of the few ways of measuring speed directly. Indeed, the speedometer on the car and the GPS speed are indirect measures, i.e. they are actually measuring distance and time and then compute speed.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,878 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    but that's all that speed is? distance covered in unit time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Anjobe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭Flying Abruptly


    Wait until I tell you that when you accelerate, you change the rate of speed over time, m/s/s or km/hr/hr!

    The OP needs to look up the base units of the SI system. Every unit of measurement, no matter the application, is made up from some combination of metre, second, kilogram, kelvin, candela amp or mole.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,009 ✭✭✭Allinall


    That’s average speed.

    Theres no way of measuring speed at a given point in time, as at any given point in time, nothing is moving at any speed.

    We can therefore only measure average speed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,390 ✭✭✭Cordell


    as at any given point in time, nothing is moving at any speed.

    This is not true. We have practical limitations when measuring speed, so what we actually measure is the average speed for a very short time interval, but that doesn't mean speed or movement are not continuous. So when something is moving at some speed, the distance travelled will be zero for a time interval of zero, but that doesn't mean that there is no instantaneous speed.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,878 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Is this not just stating that 'if no time has elapsed, nothing can happen'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭Flying Abruptly


    Pitot tube measures pressure, from which you can calculate speed. But it is a direct instantaneous measurement as it doesn't need a time difference.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,878 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    anyway, that was not the point i was trying to make. speed is stated/measured as distance divided by time, whether we're talking about an average or not. i think - from what you're saying - you're talking about speed as a fundamental measurement of its own, independent of other measurements (such as distance and time). and (going out on a limb here) that's not possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,390 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Correct, it measures pressure (and pressure difference), but it doesn't need a time reference. Time is also not measured directly, instead we count pulses of a known frequency, generated by a mechanical, electronic or even atomic device. Pretty much any measurement is either by comparison with a known measure (length, mass) or by observing its effects on something else (temperature, pressure, voltage), and then again measure by comparison with a known measure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭Greyfox




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,495 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Pitot measures pressure, which can then be used to calculate velocity



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Calculus 101:

    which is how the kinematic equations are derived:

    For vehicles its even easier in practical application, vehicle sensors measure this (usually on the assumption of no-slip condition of tyres etc), for aircraft they use pitot tubes and other derived fundamental physical maths to calculate speed from differences in air pressure at points on the instrument:


    OP might thrive in an engineering program.



  • Advertisement
  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,393 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Simple

    Just stick in cruise control and don't worry about junctions or roundabouts....

    😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 229 ✭✭Nuno


    I think fundamentally there is no absolute measure of speed due to relativistic considerations. Great video by Veritasium on the topic





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    🙈🙉🙊



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,532 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan






  • well actually judge seeing as there’s no way in which to measure speed yet I can’t actually be convicted of speeding can I?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 608 ✭✭✭mockler007


    I got to work early travelling at 135 speeds.

    I never laughed so hard.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,878 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i think we can come up with a more creative dimensionless unit for speed.

    i got to work early travelling at 135 roadrunners.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,390 ✭✭✭Cordell


    knots - arguably invented when measuring speed was crucial. One knot (and not knot per hour) is equal to one nautical mile per hour.

    Judge, I'm a sailor, I though the speed limit is in knots, AS IT SHOULD BE!!!!!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,878 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    but therefore a knot is a dimensioned unit.

    it's like saying 'we're calling km/h spondulicks from now on' and claiming a spondulick is dimensionless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭Flying Abruptly


    Historically knots was the number of knots on a rope that passed through the sailors hand over a fixed time period, so still had a time reference but was reported without it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,472 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Think thread reminds me of another forum I was on years ago where a girl asked "Why is lava wet? Surely at that heat all the water would evaporate and it would turn solid"



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭daithi7


    Fair question imho, I just hope she didn't try to wash her face in it though!?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭daithi7


    OP, recalling my leaving cert & engineering physics, your initial query may not be as daft as it initially appears imho.

    As there are actually many uncertainties in our 'known & observed' universe. (Whatever that actually is, since we are by definition observing that through the prisms of our own perceptions, constructs & the limits of these & our devices to measure such, etc, etc)

    For instance, iirc, the dimensions of space & time & the effects of gravity & the like warp & change their fundamental characteristics as items that have mass such as matter, approach the speed of light. So hence phenomena like black holes, where even light appears to act like matter, & is governed by gravity etc, etc.

    A rather bright German chap had a theory of relativity about all this kinda stuff that created quite a fuss back in the day.

    Also is light made up of protons or waves!?! Answers via fibre optic comms only please ;)

    And are electrons here or there? Iirc, if you actually locate one, you can't measure it's speed, wavelength or charge or something else about it. Pesky little sub atomic things those blooming elusive electrons!!!

    So it turns out that our perception & measurement of things in our physical universe are not nearly as absolute, or universal, as many people seem to think.

    Nonetheless the relative measurement of speed is fairly set in stone, excuse the pun, and particularly so if you unfortunately happen to run into such a stone at 80 m/s, knots, mph, or even little old leisurely kph. That would be pretty definitive imho....





  • Speed is literally just the time it takes to cover a certain distance. Any unit of length divided by any unit of time. However, you measure it pretty much instantaneously using modern instruments.

    You car isn’t calculating your speed by measuring distance travelled each hour, as that wouldn’t be much use to you! It’s a near instantaneous measurement using mechanical and digital instruments - the speedometer. Effectively it’s calculating it continuously over a very small distance using the rotation of the wheels as a measurement input.

    You can calculate it electronically using radar or lasers bouncing off objects, you can use GPS, Galileo or other sat nav positions, Pitot tubes on aircraft (also in F1 cars, weather monitoring stations, wind tunnels etc etc) do it using differences in pressure, you used ultrasound too to measure for example velocity of flow though a pipe.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,393 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Are we talking powder or pills?

    😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I measure my speed on the kitchen scales as I would flour when making a cake.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,810 ✭✭✭take everything


    Something mildly interesting brought to you by the mean value theorem:

    If you travel a distance of 100 miles in one hour (going at any speeds you want on the way to make that journey in that time), you must have travelled at 100 mph at least once on the journey.

    Not immediately obvious but interesting if you think about. The mean value theorem is one of the most important things in Calculus.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Was it because Zeno couldn't catch up with a tortoise because he had a pair of Docs ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    And the speedometer in your car is lying to you. You are not travelling as fast as it's telling you, that really annoys me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    It took two pages to see an explanation for the speedometer. To expand on it, the wheels rotate at a measurable rate - x number of times per second. The wheels have a known* circumference. The outer circumference makes contact** with the ground. If the circumference of a wheel is 2m and the wheel rotates 5 times per second, its center will have moved 10 meters in that second.

    *wheel may be bald/flat leading to actual speed being lower than speed measured by rotation

    **contact with ground can be affected by water, grit etc so the slippage would lead to actual speed being lower than the measured speed.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight




  • Advertisement
Advertisement