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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    I knew that as soon as people started to give some feedback of actual air temperatures in those hotspots and generally gave them about 5-7 degrees C less.

    In short: you simply cannot trust any data reported in the media and there is a crisis of authority when the likes of NASA are doing their bit to ramp up the panic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    The new covid.same play book being rolled out again.#follow the science



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    Cheap content. TheJournal.ie business model hire university students and combine with grants from the EU and cheap feeds from NGOs like covering climate now that provide alarmist feeds, generate clickbait. RTE are also a partner of CCNOW, George Lee and the others in Irish media who call themselves environmental correspondents make a living from that feed.

    This work is co-funded by Journal Media and a grant programme from the European Parliament. Any opinions or conclusions expressed in this work are the author’s own. The European Parliament has no involvement in nor responsibility for the editorial content published by the project. For more information, see here. (source)

    Here is the take from Neil Winton who was a Reuters’ Science and Technology Correspondent in the 1990s: Climate Change; An Alternative View But Backed By Top Experts

    Since the mid-90s, climate science hasn’t progressed much, but now the politicians are relying on computer modelling for the ever more hysterical climate predictions and panicky plans. These models are notorious for predicting unreliable scenarios, not least because they are loaded with assumptions that are often highly speculative and politically motivated.

    Reuters, AFP and Bloomberg, who provide so much news content globally, are their CCNow partners. The Media is the Massage

    In days gone by the wire services’ watchword was political and ideological neutrality. Playing such a straight bat made them unremarkable. But now AFP, Reuters and Bloomberg have literally signed the climate pledge and partnered with 460 other media groups at Covering Climate Now (CCN). That “partnership” involves hyping warming and cancelling whatever doesn’t fit the narrative. And AP, in a jaw-dropping breach of journalistic ethics, this month began hiring 20 climate-crazed reporters using an $US8 million gift from five green/Left billionaire philanthropies. From now on we’ll be reading the best AP climate news that can be bought with activists’ money.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Been there done that. A bit easier pulled after a bit of rain, but then a bit of rain makes the yellow b*st*rds grow faster.

    I would be surprised it they are not growing somewhere in one of Dante`s circles of hell.

    Bracken is mrking a big comeback around the countryside as well since the E.U. banned Asulox. Big debate nowadays in the E.U. if herbicides are carcinogenic. Ironic really when bracken is a carcinogenic and they have banned the herbicide that is species specific for controlling it. But then that is the E.U. nowadays. A lot of the time the right hand doesn`t have a clue as to what the left hand is doing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    Of everything ive read on climate change in the past 10 years, I found this to be an absolutely fascinating paper on "The Greenhouse Effect", C02 and falsification.

    Well worth a read whether pro/against C02 impacts on climate change. It's quite mathematical but understandable:

    "Falsification Of The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within The Frame Of Physics"

    https://arxiv.org/abs/0707.1161

    As with everything I like to read both sides of the story but seems scientific papers commenting on this paper are £35, if anyone has a free link to this would very much appreciate it - https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/10.1142/S0217979210055573



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    Excellent, thanks very much

    *Edit* Have to say the provided an excellent rebuttal on claims made against their paper.

    Post edited by lmimmfn on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    I've read all three papers -- Gerlich and Tscheuschner's original, Halpern et al's comments, and G&T's reply. I have to say I find Halpern et al far more convincing. G&T do an awful lot of irrelevant beating around the bush. Obviously I'm not a climate scientist, nor even a meteorologist, but I do have some vaguely relevant qualifications. (My masters is in astrophysics where the equations of radiative transfer are standard fare). G&T devote at least a third of their paper to a seemingly pointless exposition of radiative transfer, and to a straw man about a literal greenhouse effect that nobody is proposing.

    Given they spent so much time on radiative transfer they also make a very strange argument that it is irrelevant to heat transfer. I don't think they are denying that atmospheric CO2 scatters longwave radiation that would otherwise be emitted to space. They make a straw man argument that it is not all scattered downward, but again nobody proposed that. They make yet another spurious claim that downward scattered radiation would violate the 2nd law, which Halpern easily refutes (because it is nonsense -- and seemingly ignorant of the thermal radiation and reciprocity laws of Kirchhoff, Helmholtz and Planck). The argument is not that heat flows from cold to hot, but that the temperature gradient is modified.

    But their main claim that radiative transfer and heat transfer are unconnected would need a lot more than mere handwaving away. My understanding is that the half-lives of the various excited states of CO2 after absorbing IR are very short. The radiation will be re-emitted very quickly and I have read arguments that say the IR will therefore be lost to space very quickly in spite of CO2. But if you calculate the mean time between collisions of CO2 molecules in air (which is straightforward using the gas laws), it is much shorter than the excitation half life, so collisional de-excitation could easily convert the IR into mechanical heat. I'm not an expert, but G&T don't seem to address this at all.

    The arguments about Global Circulation Models / Climate Models, on the other hand, are way above my pay grade. If I found the free time to devote to it it's something I would plan to understand much better. I frankly find it a bit fantastical to imagine that GCMs of relatively low resolution can capture all the dynamics of global warming evolution for decades or centuries ahead. But I am prepared to be persuaded.

    Overall, I have no real problems with the basic physics of global warming. My problems are with uncertainties in the models, the popular fixation on implausible worst case scenarios, and the elevation of AGW to an "existential crisis" which demands that no resources are spared in the (almost certainly futile) quest for net zero. I believe that calming the hysteria and focusing on longer term more practical solutions is almost certain to leave us better off overall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    I agree that those papers make valid arguments but i find others found elsewhere much more focused like the absense of an accumulation of heat above the tropics that increased Co2 is supposed to bring. There is enough scientific (physics) evidence to state the small role of Co2 in the greenhouse effect (which seems stable and not (very) dynamic, its limitation in frequency range and quick saturation to state with confidence that it is simply unable to do much forcing. If it does transfer heat (energy) it should show up increasingly the more Co2 is emitted yet it doesnt. There is no ( extra) hot air above the tropics which is necessary for the linkage of Co2 to global warming as science predicts. To me that is the best argument against Co2 being the 'perpetrator' of global warming. No 'smoking gun' if you will. Edit: That AND the simple fact that Co2 more often than not rises AFTER the temperature does. I think it is on average about 500 years later looking at the historical record.

    The weather fixed to Co2 which is a popular one in any case does not count in any court of climate law either because you first have to explain AND prove the mechanism. So far, the evidence is only (vaguely) circumstantial. Yet, the courts now seem willing to accept it as proof. That's how bad it is. The propaganda is working on all levels and since most judges are likely to be climate science ignorant they will trust the established official experts' opinion. Sad but true..

    Post edited by deholleboom on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Best of luck to Larry, will be interesting to see what way the high court rules. They'll probably grant the examinership but I'd say its only delaying the inevitable




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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If they are granted the examinership by the High Court, and with them sitting on assets worth over £20 Bn at today`s price for crude oil alone, it is difficult to see how the High Court would find grounds not to grant the petition.

    An examiner is not appointed to wind up a company. He/she is appointed to examine if a company is viable, can be saved and report back to the High Court. If that comes to pass, then it is Eamon who will need luck on a very possible judicial review on top of the Lansdown Oil & Gas case under the Energy Charter Treaty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Dark-coloured objects heat up in sunlight shocker! LOL.

    The BBC is really scraping the bottom of the barrel of sensationalist "climate" reporting.

    You have to scroll a third of the way down the article to the rather less sensational: "Summertime is the busy time, so that's not surprising, but the numbers are a little bit higher than anticipated".

    I've driven a black car around the US south in high summer. You touch that bodywork you are going to leave your skin stuck to it. Benjamin Franklin probably wasn't the first person to figure it out, but his 300 year old experiment seems to be news to the BBC.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Yeah, I've done the Southern US Summer. You learn very quickly not to touch the seat belt buckle and what the acronym AC means.

    Here is something else from the Lancet this time. Pay attention to the scale. notice what they did . . . In this graph from the paper, 10 excess deaths from the heat looks “bigger” than 50 excess deaths from cold. Isn’t the whole point of a graph so we can compare the bars "at a glance"?


    Now compare what they did when the sleight of hand is removed.


    This is from a 2015 study published in the Lancet that I have referenced previously. More people die during cold temperatures.



    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    I seen a tweet from Bjorn Lomborg pointing out that deception the other day. It's scandalous but not really surprising. Like using surface temps instead of air temps to really drive home the "emergency".

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    Johnathan Healy on newstalk this morning in their opening monologue was practically hysterical.blaming all of us for this and that the world is going to blow up in the next 5 minutes.same playbook from media as during the thing 2020/2022.turned it off and left it off.and the media wonder why people aren’t listening anymore



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    People take note of Clare County Council who plan to build a 30million euro shopping centre on a large existing car park behind one of the main shopping streets, and by the River Fergus, which floods and despite the pump stations installed, will continue to flood given increased rainfall projections. The centre will effectively be the death knell for for the town which is already on its knees not least because of the forced pedestrianization of some streets and the absence of adequate car parks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Oh look, it's the Guardian lying again.

    Despite the facts that the local fire chief has already stated that the fires were a direct result of arson, somehow they report that "scientists" say they are result of climate change.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭US3


    I learned during covid that there is a big difference between science and The science.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I may have posted this before but the wildfires last year that burnt in the Bordeaux area began in areas that the newly visting self-styled cognescenti from Paris( thanks to the high speed train) had demanded be rewilded because they did not like the monoculture planting of Atlantic Pine, planted back in the 1700s which has transformed the area, stabilised the dunes and created a massive forest industry. Once sufficient brush and dead grass built up in these areas they spontaneously caught fire in tremendous heat, and other areas were deliberately set alight. Moral of the story is that nature needs to be managed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    Honestly and im not trying to be smart here but stop reading rubbish like the Journal. It's an absolute group think echo chamber. Sky News has got like that also. They are just a mouthpiece for whatever agenda they have been paid to peddle at any particular time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,384 ✭✭✭prunudo


    I would also hazard a guess that the fire's are spreadng due to not enough fire breaks and bad management of scrub areas.

    There seems to be an idea that by creating conservation areas and rewilding areas of uplands, means you can just turn your back on them but its far from the truth, they need to be carefully managed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    Honestly I read news from many sources but I like to check mainstream media to see what they are pushing 😀 and to try and see what's behind it, e.g. the link posted earlier on AFP receiving funding from private entities(including climate activists) had me recheck TJ's climate articles and low and behold about 50% of them in the past week are AFP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Here is a masters thesis from 2002 by Georgios Maheras about wildfires in Greece.

    Forests fires in Greece. The analysis of the phenomenon affecting both natural and human environment. The role of sustainable development in controlling fire effects.

    As this was from the days when it was not obligatory to blame anything and everything on Climate Change™, he does not mention it at all. Instead he details and analyses all the numerous causes and discusses remediation practices. This really shows up the dangers of blaming everything on Climate Change™ when the real reasons are much more involved.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Wasn't it the same in California a couple of years ago as well? The local governments were not managing their forest areas properly and basically just left them to rot, leaving a plentiful supply of dried out firewood to keep feeding the fires once they were inevitably caused by arson.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There's a leak from Project BRUCE (Better Road User Charging Evaluation) doing the rounds, on road use charging. As is typical in these cases, the leak being discussed is at the extreme end of the scale i.e. a charge per KM driven. This is not a bad idea, but naturally the implementation strategy would be key e.g. a 1 eur charge per km for a trip on a motorway would be just farcical, but a 1 cent per km charge would be more realistic especially if taken as part of a yearly charge which also incorporated the vehicle emission level and weight into account

    You would end up with an equation which would be something like (km driven * 0.01) * emission band multiplier * weight band multiplier

    I think that would be an entirely fair and reasonable approach. If you drive 20,000 km a year in a lightweight EV, you would be looking at a lower charge than if you did the same in a honking great big SUV EV. Given the increased wear and tear on the roads from the higher weight EV it would make sense.

    Note the road use charging leak out in the wild at the moment only covers one of four proposals. No details yet on the other 3



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As part of this announcement there's some new figures released regarding the deposit return scheme due to kick off next year

    • They are still targeting a Feb 2024 launch date
    • Over 90% of producers have signed up so far
    • Over 2,500 retailers have signed up

    As to why this is being done:

    Under the EU’s directive on single-use plastics, Ireland must ensure separate collection of 77 per cent of plastic beverage bottles placed on the market by 2025, rising to 90 per cent in 2029.

    Those targets will be easily achievable once the rollout of this is completed.

    If other locations like Germany are any indication, collecting empty bottles and cans while out on a walk will become a national pastime



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭political analyst


    There were wildfires in Greece in the 1990s but there was no hysteria about climate change at the time. Furthermore, limiting the rise of temperature to 1.5 Celsius won't prevent wildfires or heatwaves in Mediterranean countries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It`s becoming like a farcial take off of the old guy with a beard in the Simpsons carton whose answer to anything relating to children is "That`s a paddling"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I thought my car costs were high when I had mine, coming in at around 7.5k eur a year.

    Just goes to show how much better off you could be without the car, especially if you have viable alternatives (I know not everyone does)




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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,384 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Excellent, can spend the savings on foreign holiday and weekend city breaks.



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